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Author Topic: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.  (Read 7082 times)

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Offline Lukmendes

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List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« on: March 11, 2015, 01:41:19 AM »
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As we all know, Somacula will be added as a "secret" final boss on the game for Nightmare mode only, and one of the conditions to fight him is to do an unknown ammount of Perfect/Awesome (Which means, beat the boss without taking damage), and since not all bosses are possible to defeat without taking hits (Without having to rely heavily on luck that is), I'm just separating here the ones who are.

Note: The list is not final, it's based only on my testings against the bosses.

Now for the list:

Universal:

Abaddon
(click to show/hide)

Agni
(click to show/hide)

Akmodan
(click to show/hide)

Astarte
(click to show/hide)

Balore
(click to show/hide)

Blackmore
(click to show/hide)

Carmilla
(click to show/hide)

Dario
(click to show/hide)

Gergoth
(click to show/hide)

Giant Bat
(click to show/hide)

Great Armor
(click to show/hide)

Great Minotaur
(click to show/hide)

Remilia
(click to show/hide)

Rusalka
(click to show/hide)

Skull Knight
(click to show/hide)

Stella
(click to show/hide)

Wyvern
(click to show/hide)

Zephyr
(click to show/hide)

Character specific

Cerberus
(click to show/hide)

Dogether
(click to show/hide)

Dracula
(click to show/hide)

Great Werewolf
(click to show/hide)

Medusa
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:29:05 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2015, 01:36:51 PM »
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I honestly think that it is also possible to get Perfect/Awesome when fighting Lesser Demon. The chances are higher if you use a character whose attacks don't disappear after hitting only one or few targets. It's also easy for whip users because spinning the whip destroys the ghosts and the fireballs. Just make sure you don't get cornered....(I still can't defeat him as Alucard in Nightmare mode....damnit).


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 02:13:31 PM »
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I'm not sure about Lesser Demon, what generaly may make it not really viable for a character to do Perfect/Awesome against him is the character lacking a safe and fast way to destroy the flying skulls, similar to Dogether and the rocks attack, characters who can destroy projectiles easily can deal with Lesser Demon just fine, but I'm not sure about characters like Yoko who lack fast and reliable way to destroy the flying skulls before they leave Lesser Demon's body.

Alucard has three ways to deal with the flying skulls, use Dark Inferno and make the lava orbs go up, may not work often because some skulls can fly too high and escape from the lava orbs, use f,f+A or use a throwing axe, I personaly preffer to use the last one.

Edit: Forget what I said about Yoko, I forgot she can use Holy Lighting sub weapon to destroy the flying skulls, also Thor's below, but I don't like it's slower recovery... I'll test out with other characters later to see if they have reliable ways to destroy the flying skulls.

Edit 2: Added a big section for Lesser Demon.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:46:15 AM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 06:09:13 AM »
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Added sections for Wyvern and Astarte.

Also I'm not sure if Lesser Demon should stay on this list, it can summon more flying skulls in case you destroy 4 of them too early, and with some characters, there isn't an always a reliable way to destroy all flying skulls, some characters also can't destroy flying skulls without risks in case they fail in doing so when Lesser Demon is summoning them...

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 09:12:52 AM »
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Lesser Demon is actually still possible but the arsenal of characters that can do so is also very limited. You require more luck than other bosses in my opinion. It's easier for characters that have dashes or teleports (Richter, Julius), or those that have wide area attacks (Soma, Maxim (not quite sure if he can), Charlotte) or whip users at least for the skulls and fireballs, but for characters that don't have much mobility and have difficulties destroying many projectiles, yeah.....

Edit: Stella is possible, but only for characters that have abilities which can dish out good damage from a distance. You also have to at least know the boundaries of your character's hitbox (hurricane can hit you if you're crouching sometimes). She's also easy against characters that can hit airborne enemies quite well, like belmonts (axe), Soma (Erinys, if you can hit it, the sniper), Charlotte (skeleton, tempest if you can), etc. For every character though, just backdash or juke the crescent moons.

Blackmore seems easy, but he's only predictable. In my opinion, it depends on how quickly you can finish him. For Juste and Hugh, who can finish off "thick" enemies quickly, it shouldn't be much of a problem (Juste requires a lot of luck, though, damn his hcf+a has a really long pause time). Also if you can dash through him while he's slashing in time, you can get free hits, just backdash before he turns around, otherwise the almighty contact damage hits you lol.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 09:23:17 AM by Anonymous »


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 02:04:08 PM »
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The problem is that some characters may lack the tools to destroy the flying skulls consistently, axe doesn't always work for characters who don't have anything better, sure someone like Charlotte or Soma just destroy Lesser Demon on the matchup, but not everyone is like them.

Stella, I kinda have my doubts because of the way she uses her Crescent Moons, usualy the best way to avoid them is dashing under her, but sometimes she can fly pretty low, so you'll be at the corner jumping from them, there's also her qcf attack, she may dash in too close and make a very hard to escape contact damage, but I haven't fought her enough to be sure if everything is avoidable.

Blackmore, if the character has a throwing axe I just stay on the corner and throw it until Blackmore dies, it hits multiple times, so it really hurts him, trying to go behind him seems like a waste of time honestly, you could be using that MP to just throw more axes lol, I'll see more characters to be sure though, but I'm 99% sure it's possible to beat him without taking hits with all characters since you can just stay on the corner to avoid his attacks (Backdash when he uses that orb which falls on you, it'll even avoid the pillar it makes, and jump to avoid everything else, walking forward to avoid the falling orb also works, but you kinda risk receiving contact damage if he decides to use the beam attack).

Edit: Added Blackmore to the list, I don't know why I ever doubted it was possible to defeat him withou taking hits lol.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 03:05:32 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 04:35:59 PM »
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Well, all I can say is that technically you can get perfect/awesome on every boss with every character. The only thing is on some it's very easy and requires pure skill and experience, on some it's very difficult that you need to have made countless attempts, and in the remaining it's that difficult you require pure luck that the random number generator is in your favor.

Well, except Olrox. Too many familiars in the room to be able to get perfect/awesome.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 05:15:57 PM »
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Well, yeah, most bosses can be defeated without taking hits, but having to rely on "please don't use this" to do so is why I don't put them on the list, I mean, there was one time I defeated Brauner without taking hits with Charlotte, and one time I almost defeated Death without taking hits with Julius, but it was a combination of characters tools (Charlotte rapes Brauner, Julius has Belmont stuff and his dodges help him to avoid some of Death's bullshit), but that's not something that will happen reliably.

Let's not forget some characters just don't have the tools to deal with situations without avoiding hits, Hammer vs Great Werewolf is an example of this, Hammer can't destroy the wolves without taking hits, so at the very moment Great Werewolf summons them, his chances of not taking hits are over, meanwhile, with Marias, if Great Werewolf summons the wolves, Marias just backdash and keep mashing A to avoid Great Werewolf, while damaging him, while destroying the wolves (easier said than done though), or use Azure Dragons to do it more safely, or just activate the invincible mode if the fight is near the end/they're cornered (Bonus: RoB Maria has her f,f+A/C which is great at damaging Great Werewolf and destroying the wolves), so Marias are much better at dealing with Great Werewolf than Hammer and have much better chances at doing no damage than him.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 05:33:46 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 05:53:49 PM »
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Updated Carmilla's and Gergoth's sections, it was really shitty before, now there's an actual explanation on how to avoid their attacks and when to attack them, and I removed Lesser Demon's section because characters generaly can't deal with flying skulls very well (I have it saved here just in case though).

Post Merge: June 04, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
Updated Abaddon, Agni, Blackmore, Dario and Great Minotaur and Great Armor, now it has better explainations about their attacks (Not so much for Great Armor and Great Minotaur since they're so simple though) and when to attack.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 03:43:17 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2015, 08:33:49 PM »
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With the 0.6.12 patch, Abaddon and Great Armor received small changes on their AI which change the matchup a bit, but it's still possible to beat them without taking hits, Abaddon is important with all characters (Basicaly, he'll turn around to face the character when using locusts, and you need to be at the corner just so he doesn't jump at the character) and Great Armor now blocks all item crashes which don't do unique damage, those informations are added on the first post.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 04:27:25 PM »
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Just saying, you forgot to mention that Maxim's item crash isn't blocked by Great Armor.

Decided to take a run through the tier 1 bosses. 4 aren't listed and in my opinion:

Lesser Demon: I have to agree with you on this one. Easiest for Belmonts because of whip spin, but hitting all skulls with just axes takes some luck, as some fly upwards, away from the axes. It's also easy for characters like Soma because, well, Erinys. So far I got perfect with Julius and Soma.

Dogether: Just like LD, whip spin and axes (since 6.12) for destroying the rocks, but for some non-whip users, dealing with the rocks can be difficult.

Giant Bat: The situation is like Stella and Zephyr. Unless he doesn't use this certain attack too often (I was shocked that he can hit the player with the dash even while crouching, at least in my case), it's possible.

Cerberus: Completely out of the question.

Also in my opinion, I doubt the amount of perfect/awesome we need will be more than 10 or so. The thing is, while we have 10(+2 if you count Stella and Zephyr btw) bosses listed here (with strategies, nice work), 4 (?) are in story tiers and the other 6 are random. So unless patch99_boss.dog is set, getting exactly 10 or more would depend on luck that you get those bosses listed here.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 05:31:19 PM »
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Just saying, you forgot to mention that Maxim's item crash isn't blocked by Great Armor.

I actualy didn't even know about that, I don't play as Maxim so much, thanks.

Quote
Dogether: Just like LD, whip spin and axes (since 6.12) for destroying the rocks, but for some non-whip users, dealing with the rocks can be difficult.

I don't find rocks to be that much of a threat, if a character lacks whip spin or similar I tend to walk away while the rocks try to hit the character then double jump on the corner, I think it's possible to avoid everything by just staying at the corner and jumping, the way to do so would be by doing a well timed super jump to make the character hit his/her head at the celing to make the character fall faster, while avoiding some of the rocks, but anyway, the biggest problem is how low he can fly and sometimes he can get you stuck on a corner while flying low, so if he uses the fire attack, you'll only escape because you made a right guess, not because you reacted apropriately, this kind of randomness + the stage you fight him is why I don't think it's possible for him to be included on this list, but then again if he couldn't fly low he'd be another Great Minotaur of how easy it'd be to beat him.

Quote
Giant Bat: The situation is like Stella and Zephyr. Unless he doesn't use this certain attack too often (I was shocked that he can hit the player with the dash even while crouching, at least in my case), it's possible.

It's probably possible by characters who have slides, since it avoids the dash in attack, I myself have trouble to avoid that fireballs attack which track a bit, specialy if he gets me stuck in a corner where I have to worry about that attack and the dash in one.

Quote
Also in my opinion, I doubt the amount of perfect/awesome we need will be more than 10 or so. The thing is, while we have 10(+2 if you count Stella and Zephyr btw) bosses listed here (with strategies, nice work), 4 (?) are in story tiers and the other 6 are random. So unless patch99_boss.dog is set, getting exactly 10 or more would depend on luck that you get those bosses listed here.

Well, I have no idea when Somacula is gonna be added, if it's in 1.0 then yeah, I think patch99 will be needed to avoid having to count on luck to face a specific boss to beat without taking hits, but if it's after 1.1 is released then I don't think there'll be a problem, 1.0 MUGEN has 10 tiers to put those bosses, and 4 bosses are mandatory to fight on non story tiers, but with 1.1 there's 30 tiers, so it's much better to organize those things and Serio could just put some of the "no damage" bosses together.

Anyway, Zephyr and Stella might not be possible, Stella lately is a bit more random and sometimes she gets too close and avoiding her attacks is complicated, Zephyr, I think he uses the bitchslap less often if you're jumping, but the real problem is how he can teleport sometimes, seems like he only uses it when he's dying, but maybe he does so only after taking a lot of damage, plus sometimes he can randomly jump on a wall and makes some attacks hader to avoid, I'll do proper testings later.

Lately I'm suspecting Akmodan is possible to beat without taking hits, I'll have to find proper ways to avoid his projectile attack though (Characters like Soma can just destroy it, but this list is "universal" after all), and the bricks which surround the character, I'll add Rusalka to this list later, she was always possible to do no damage against, I didn't realize it because I wasn't fighting her properly, she was just a bit harder than the other bosses because you'd have to space out properly against her and just not attack in some situations, also be careful with the rocks, but now she's much easier since she abuses that hose attack, which is basicaly "Backdash to get close to attack the boss: The move".
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:57:48 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2015, 06:23:45 PM »
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Quote
Just saying, you forgot to mention that Maxim's item crash isn't blocked by Great Armor.
it will now. unique damage not being blocked by him was a bug.

he did that by setting his physical and magical defense multiplier to 0 so every attack was multiplied by 0 and negated, but unique bypassed that and force set it to 1, ignoring everyone's defenses.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:53:01 PM by serio »
Dracula was here

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 12:23:13 AM »
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Updated Dario's, Gergoth's and Great Armor's sections a bit to detail more, and since the sections where getting pretty big, I put them under spoiler to not cover so much space, also added sections for Rusalka and Zephyr.

Post Merge: June 17, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
Added a section for Giant Bat.

By the way Serio, I would advice for Giant Bat's damage to be beefed up a bit, even when you couldn't crouch under the dash in attack, you didn't have to respect him because his damage output is pretty low, so he was weak even by first tier standards, now that you can crouch under his dash in attack, you can respect him even less, even if you don't want/don't know how to beat him without taking hits.

Edit: Update Astarte's section, found a much more consistent strategy on how to avoid her attacks at the beginning of the fight.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 02:16:43 AM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2015, 12:23:08 AM »
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Updated Carmilla's and Zephyr's sections, with Zephyr I added a detail I forgot to mention (Damaging him too much when he's dying = random teleport), with Carmilla I added safer strategies to avoid her, as well as the best way to generaly jump from one platform to the other (Jump, super jump, double jump).

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2015, 04:13:31 PM »
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Also for Blackmore, his attacks change in a similar way to Dario's. Usually he attacks with his hands 3 times, but after he has lower than half his health, he attacks 5 instead. Same goes for the crouching and then using the beam.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2015, 03:05:39 PM »
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Also for Blackmore, his attacks change in a similar way to Dario's. Usually he attacks with his hands 3 times, but after he has lower than half his health, he attacks 5 instead. Same goes for the crouching and then using the beam.

Ah yes, I forgot to update that about the hands attack, didn't know about the attacking then crouching then use the beam while crouching though, thought he'd randomly get up for a brief moment, thanks.

Post Merge: July 02, 2015, 12:48:59 AM
Made small updates on the list, removed the part where I said you can just use unique damage item crashes against Great Armor, not the case anymore (Only Julius can do it now though), replaced it with another one on how to hit him with other item crashes though (Had forgotten about that strat lol), also added a small detail about a move I forgot to mention, added more details to the Rusalka matchup, added a character specific matchup detail vs Dario (Important if you use Master Skeleton), and removed the "Frog might not/can't defeat this boss without taking hits" from Carmilla's and Zephyr's sections since he now has a complete moveset, projectiles included.

Post Merge: July 02, 2015, 09:18:36 PM
Updated Rusalka's section, listed more opportunities you have to attack her.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:18:36 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Medlin

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2015, 11:42:18 AM »
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I actually believe it's possible to perfect LD with every character but you need the great timing attacking him when he summon. Trying that currently, require too much practice somehow.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2015, 02:17:15 PM »
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I actually believe it's possible to perfect LD with every character but you need the great timing attacking him when he summon. Trying that currently, require too much practice somehow.

It's not just timing, it's luck as well in some cases, the flying skulls may come out at random positions, which can ruin the way some characters can destroy them if they come out too low or too high.

Then there's also the problem of some characters lacking slides, which is bad when Lesser Demon corners them, slide is the best way to avoid him when he jumps at the character.

I'm not saying it's impossible to defeat him without taking hits, it's just that Lesser Demon isn't like the other listed bosses where you have universal ways to avoid their attacks, he's a more character specific kind of boss when it comes to doing a perfect, the ones I can think of right now who can do so are whip users (Includes Reimu), Charlotte, Soma, Shanoa, and others like Marias and Sakuya, but other characters just lack a consistent way to destroy the flying skulls or to avoid his corner pressure, and to be able to do both is what's important to do a perfect.

Of course, that's as far as I've played, maybe I'm missing something on the matchup to avoid his attacks better in an universal way.

Post Merge: July 12, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
I decided to start to put a character specific list here, this one obviously isn't universal, as long as one character can beat a boss viably without taking hits, it can be added there.

Only added Balore for now, feeling lazy to write about other bosses at the moment.

What's the character limit per post? That list can get pretty big, might not be enough for first post.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 08:34:08 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 03:02:20 AM »
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100k characters.
Dracula was here

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2015, 03:45:02 AM »
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Damn, that's a lot lol.

I've checked here, and the first post has "only" a bit less than 30k, guess I really don't have to worry about lack of characters.

Post Merge: July 14, 2015, 04:45:47 AM
Added Lesser Demon to the character specific list, I feel like it's incomplete, possibly more characters can be added, any ideas on who else could be added, let me know.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:45:47 AM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2015, 08:27:04 PM »
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Made small updates on Balore's section when mentioning Alucard because of the changes he received, also a small update on Rusalka option (Just mentioning the turn around while crouching and attacking which makes a f,f attack happen).

I'm planning to add Dracula next, only when my lazyness to fight him to do more testings is gone though, lol.

Post Merge: July 22, 2015, 03:37:45 AM
Added Dracula to the character specific list, for now only Jonathan, Albus and Alucard are there, because they're the only ones I've confirmed they can beat Dracula without taking hits, Julius, Stella, Persephone, Montano, Sakuya, Reimu, SotN Maria Richters/Hanz and Juste, among possible others are candidates to entering that list too, but I need to be sure all of them can avoid Dracula's second form meteor attack and the projectiles properly.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 03:37:45 AM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2015, 07:01:13 PM »
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Added Skull Knight to the list, and surprisingly, he's on the universal list, I used to think that only flight characters and the ones who have low hurtbox while crouching would be able to beat him without taking hits, but I found some strategies everyone can use.

I think that Stella will be able to do more Perfect/Awesome against bosses than anyone else on the game, she's the jack of all trades of the game, and since she has basicaly every important tool the game has to offer (While also not having the best version of those tools), she may be in every character-specific list.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2015, 07:59:45 PM »
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Made small changes on the list, added a character specific detail for Julius on Dario's, Astarte's and Zephyr's sections since lack of daggers changes those matchups, removed the strat for Axe Armor on the Great Armor match up since he can use the bombs instead of Shockwave now, removed the part of the Skull Knight section where it mentioned you can jump over his beam (Not possible anymore), and added the detail of a glitch with Rusalka when she uses the water hose attack.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 01:24:59 PM »
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Quote
Added Dracula to the character specific list, for now only Jonathan, Albus and Alucard are there, because they're the only ones I've confirmed they can beat Dracula without taking hits, Julius, Stella, Persephone, Montano, Sakuya, Reimu, SotN Maria Richters/Hanz and Juste, among possible others are candidates to entering that list too, but I need to be sure all of them can avoid Dracula's second form meteor attack and the projectiles properly.

I'd say Julius can do it easier against the meteors, but he requires more timing because in my opinion his up, qcf+A/C has less I-Frames than the characters you already mentioned. Sakuya seems simple too because she can back- and do a "frontdash" (you can use her up, qcf+A/C but I wouldn't really rely on that short time frame.), same goes for Reimu. Come to think of it, they can also float so it's kind of cheap that they can continue hitting Dracula during the fire wave (very MP heavy though so I don't use it too much, that depends on what items the player bought.) For Persephone it's quite risky, her divekick has quite unpredictable range (at least for me), though it gives nice invincibility. For the rest, I'm still considering whether they can (I'm really thinking that Sotn Maria can manage). Also, why is Montano in the list?

Can you give me tips when fighting Cerberus? I keep dying when fighting him if I'm not using any Belmonts or Soma. (Yes I'm embarassed to say I die even when using Alucard) (Most difficulties when using Werewolf and Persephone for some reason.)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2015, 02:23:23 PM »
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I'd say Julius can do it easier against the meteors, but he requires more timing because in my opinion his up, qcf+A/C has less I-Frames than the characters you already mentioned.

In case his up, qcf +A or C ends up being unreliable (Which I honestly doubt since he can use it once, then use it again right away, though it does have some frames he'll be vulnerable), he can just double jump and super jump then use his Y dodge to go down, wastes MP, but unlike Albus, he doesn't need much MP to damage Dracula.

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Sakuya seems simple too because she can back- and do a "frontdash" (you can use her up, qcf+A/C but I wouldn't really rely on that short time frame.)

Sakuya can avoid the meteors on the same basic way as Alucard, he can avoid it with his f,f+C, then go down, then use the divekick to avoid getting hit, Sakuya can do the same thing with her up,qcf+C.

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Come to think of it, they can also float so it's kind of cheap that they can continue hitting Dracula during the fire wave (very MP heavy though so I don't use it too much, that depends on what items the player bought.)

Flight characters always had this advantage against him lol, Shanoa is the most damaging one, flight, f,f+A or C, then Glyph spear, repeat, though she isn't on this patch, since Sakuya's daggers are doing ridiculously high ammount of damage.

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For Persephone it's quite risky, her divekick has quite unpredictable range (at least for me), though it gives nice invincibility.

You need to use her f,f+A or C depending on where Dracula is, if he's at the other side of the screen, at the corner, then you need to backdash cancel until you reach the corner, and use f,f+A or C on the ground, if you use it in the air, she'll fall and get hit by Dracula, if he's at the middle of the stage, then double jump, super jump and use the f,f+A or C in the air, that way she'll go above him and avoid the contact damage, SotN Maria can do the same thing in case using air dashes ends up not being reliable.

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Also, why is Montano in the list?

He can use his air, qcf+A or C to avoid the meteors, he's invincible when the move is activated, so he'll avoid the meteors just fine, basicaly the same thing Albus can do with his qcf+A or C, he can also destroy the dogs with his beam very reliably, and I don't see him having trouble to destroy the bats on the last part of the fight thanks to his regular sword's boosted damage and his ice cross.

A while ago I noticed another problem showed up to do no damage against Dracula, which is the last part of the fight, the first wave of bats is kinda complicated to destroy with some characters, namely Sakuya and Persephone, Sakuya probably will need to use the stop watch item crash then keep abusing the golden daggers, no problem to do it now because of the retarded damage triple/quadruple shot golden daggers do, but this will gone later, Persephone will have a harder time since her only options are her A normal and her shuriken, it's probably possible, but I'm not completely sure.

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Can you give me tips when fighting Cerberus? I keep dying when fighting him if I'm not using any Belmonts or Soma. (Yes I'm embarassed to say I die even when using Alucard) (Most difficulties when using Werewolf and Persephone for some reason.)

Alucard actualy has a better matchup against Cerberus than the usual Belmont since he has f,f+C, can fly, and his doggy dash makes him duck under the fireballs while it charges lol.

Against Cerberus, you shouldn't be too close to him, since it makes it harder to avoid his fireballs and dash bite, when he corners you, a good thing to do is jump once, that's to bait hit into using his anti air firebreath attack, if he uses it, you'll probably land before it hits you, that will leave Cerberus open to being attacked, so you can use a quick attack like holy water. The fireballs, you need to duck when he shoots them, not before, when you duck, his only attack options are firebreath and dash bite, so duck carefuly, with this, characters can use a crouching attack against him, really good in case you can use  sub weapons while crouching, if your character has a move which goes from the air to the ground, then jump, and if he starts the fireball, super jump forward then use a regular jump to safely land on the platform, then throw it, and once he's finished, you can try to stay on the platform for a bit to try to bait him into using his anti air stuff, super jump into the corner, and if he uses the anti air fire breath, super jump to the corner, then attack him (Don't attack too much to avoid the super bite), then you need to try to avoid the fireballs again on the same way, if he uses the jump, run away from the corner (Better to turn at his direction while you're doing the super jump to make it easier/faster), or use a slide if the character has.

Basicaly, duck at the right moments, jump at the right moments, don't panic, and abuse things like flight mode and dash in invincible moves (To avoid his shit while you're in the air), and moves which constantly damage him (Yin Yng orbs or Ronald's Fry kids) and pray that he doesn't decide to be an asshole and use the ice fire breath attack while you're crouching, because if that happens, he'll probably use the dash bite, and that means over 50% of your HP is gone lol, also it's good to use the middle platform after you leave the corner, to do the same basic baiting, and delay the him cornering you situations.

Also keep in mind he can't use the same attack twice in a row, so if you escaped the corner when he used the jump, if you're in the air again, he'll probably to the anti air firebreath (He may not use it, sometimes he'll use grounded moves even when you're in the air).

Charlotte fights him on a pretty different way compared to others by the way, she can use Ice needles to destroy fireballs, as a barrier, and her b,d,f+A or C is a good way to leave the corner, use it in combination with her ice needles, she can also use raging fire, but that one is better for raw damage, it's not as safe, so it's better as a round ender.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, in case Cerberus uses the fireballs and you're too close to him and, there are 3 options to use in case you have room to get way, characters with Slide can just use the slide, characters with Shield can use use the shield while crouching, get up, then backdash, and characters without either of those can use a crouching attack, backdash, crouch again, crouch attack, backdash... You can also use backdash, crouch, get up, backdash, characters take 2 frames to get up if I'm not wrong, you can use the backdash during that, but that's a just frame thing, so might not be really reliable.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 02:36:06 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Undead

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2015, 03:17:00 PM »
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Cerberus is the most frustrating boss for me! I can only beat him with luck in Hard+.

His patterns and attacks are extremelly quick like, if I jump to lure him, he jumps aswell. If I run, he dashes into me hitting twice for contact damage.

Edit: Just did a playtest with Alucard against him on Quick Vs. (Nightmare), It seems like the Holy Water, Shield and Flight are the only things that are actually effective against him.

- Wing Smash stops too soon, you end up inside him or right behind him as he mauls your back.
- He won't let you Wolf Charge enough, not even as punish, so you also end up inside him.
- Back Stab makes him step back aswell and punish you when you unphase.
- Dark Inferno a.k.a "punish me" lol

Can it be I suck this much?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 03:26:59 PM by Undead »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2015, 04:04:15 PM »
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- He won't let you Wolf Charge enough, not even as punish, so you also end up inside him.

You're supposed to use Wolf Charge when you're sure Cerberus is going to use the fireballs, activate it when he starts to use the fireballs, release as soon as he's finished, Cerberus will most likely use the dash bite attack, and you'll be far enough from him to avoid contact damage, in case you weren't able to use the fully charged version, super jump into flight, if he uses then fly forward if he uses the anti air fire breath or the jump, get closer to him in case he uses fireballs.

Now that I think of it, you can also use Wolf Charge to punish him in case he uses the anti air fire breath, if you're fast enough you can get the fuly charged version consistently.

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- Back Stab makes him step back aswell and punish you when you unphase.

Forget that move exists lol, if you want to get away from him quickly, Mist form/f,f+C is the way to go, really helpful when he uses the jump and you're cornered.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 04:09:52 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2015, 10:38:50 AM »
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For LD, I'm thinking that more whip-users can fit in the list (not all though)

(Serious) Jonathan can use axes and his great sword to destroy the skulls fast enough and can use his rocket slash to get to the other side (not fully charged though, but LD is thin enough that you're just unlucky if you get hit in my opinion). (Like Richter and Julius use whip-spin if some still remain).

Nathan Graves' shoulder tackle can help to get him out of corners and he has whip-spin and axes as well.

For others I'm kind of doubting it whether they can or not. Juste no longer has the axe, but he has his ice fist as an escape method and maybe use sacred fist to destroy the skulls, but he has to jump. Sonia and Simon can use whip-spin as a safety measure if the axe doesn't destroy all, but they sadly have no way to get to the other side besides sliding under LD in time. What do you think about Master Skeleton and Reimu (Not exactly the same whip but whatever)?

That's just as far as I tested though, I might just be lucky that it succeeded with those.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2015, 02:30:10 PM »
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For LD, I'm thinking that more whip-users can fit in the list (not all though)

(Serious) Jonathan can use axes and his great sword to destroy the skulls fast enough and can use his rocket slash to get to the other side (not fully charged though, but LD is thin enough that you're just unlucky if you get hit in my opinion). (Like Richter and Julius use whip-spin if some still remain).

Nathan Graves' shoulder tackle can help to get him out of corners and he has whip-spin and axes as well.

For others I'm kind of doubting it whether they can or not. Juste no longer has the axe, but he has his ice fist as an escape method and maybe use sacred fist to destroy the skulls, but he has to jump. Sonia and Simon can use whip-spin as a safety measure if the axe doesn't destroy all, but they sadly have no way to get to the other side besides sliding under LD in time. What do you think about Master Skeleton and Reimu (Not exactly the same whip but whatever)?

That's just as far as I tested though, I might just be lucky that it succeeded with those.

I had forgotten the LD section was incomplete lol.

Anyway, Juste probably can do it, up,qcf+A means he can leave the corner, (Though the recovery frames can be a problem), and he can destroy the flying skulls just fine with either the whip or sacred fist (specialy at big distances with sacred fist), Nathan probably can as well.

Now, Jonathan and Master Skeleton? I have my doubts, they have the same basic way to avoid him at the corner, which is with the chargeable dash in move, the problem is that they can't use it in the air, they can activate it in the air, but not use in there, that's actualy why Charlotte is in that list, while she'll be doomed and will have to count on luck to be able to escape if Lesser Demon get too close when she's cornered, she can avoid this situation with her b,d,f by using it in the air, Jonathan and Master Skeleton, best situation I could find was after destroying the flying skulls with their whip, then start to charge b,d,f immediately, and release it once he lands, you'll probably charge it enough to be far from him, only other situation where they can theoricaly use that move is after Lesser Demon uses the venom spit attack, charge it after you jump over it, use it as soon as Lesser Demon starts another attack, if this works, then you'll need to avoid letting him get too close, otherwise this won't work since he'll probably use the punch, and if the character doesn't charge the move enough, Lesser Demon maybe be able to hit the character if he uses a venom spit backwards jump.

Sonia/Simon/Reimu, I doubt it, no invincible dash-in moves means they don't have a reliable way to escape the corner, theoricaly they can avoid his possibilities after a double projectile, by using a slide avoids a forward jump, venom spit, flying skulls summon... Problem is that Lesser Demon has that backwards jump venom spit attack, which is probably made specificaly to counter the slide characters, and while it's totaly possible that Lesser Demon won't use it during the round, that's just counting on luck.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2015, 03:38:09 PM »
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Anyway, Juste probably can do it, up,qcf+A means he can leave the corner, (Though the recovery frames can be a problem), and he can destroy the flying skulls just fine with either the whip or sacred fist (specialy at big distances with sacred fist), Nathan probably can as well.

Right. I wouldn't really worry about the recovery frames with Juste's up, qcf+A, as he can (or used to be able) cancel it into a jump/ super jump. (Well, that was at least how I used to do it, need to wait for next patch to do that I guess...)

Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 08:17:16 AM
So after multiple tests, you actually can get perfect on Dogether.
I think it's more character-specific though.
Most (if not all) whip-users who can do the whip-spin can do it (Having difficulties destroying the rocks quickly with some, like Maxim for some reason), as well as characters who have "large field" attacks (Like Soma with his Erinys, Albus with his Acerbatus, Stella with her qcf+A/C, and so on).

The trick is not to get close to him for too long, don't to be too jump happy, and also never get cornered. (I think because of this he belongs to the character specific category, but that's as far as I tested).
For avoiding his abilities, there is a distinct sound that plays once he uses them. They are also telegraphed with colours/symbols if you can see him in the screen.
Lasers: Backdash through them in time, the lasers aren't his fastest attacks.
Fire-...balls?: This is one of the main reasons why you shouldn't get too close to him. If you happen to be, backdash in his direction, or slide or use moves like Julius' up,qcf+A/C to get to the other side if he's too low. If you're cornered, jump on the platforms on the right time. (I need to test this one more thoroughly, it doesn't always work I noticed.)
Rocks: Whip-users who can whipspin have the most advantage here, because for them it's not imperative to destroy them first. Just find a place and whipspin. Characters with wide fields of attacking can destroy the rocks as well(Soma's Erinys, Stella's qcf+A/C, Albus' Acerbatus and so on).
Swoop: Jump over him. Super jump as well to be sure.
Also never stand under him. He randomly goes down suddenly, forcing contact damage.
Well, that's as far as I tested, so there might be missing information.

I found a workaround to the Sakuya bug where if you press up,qcf+C fast enough, the A version will come out. Do the command but press forward. That will do the C version and propel her forward. This way, the bug won't or almost won't happen.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:26:56 PM by Anonymous »


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2015, 09:26:03 PM »
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I did defeat Dogether without taking hits on occasion, but on those situations he decided to not fly low, the biggest reason why I'm not sutr if he should be put on the list is him flying low + using the fire attack when he corners you (Not really possible to avoid corner pressure completely against him like you can do with Skull Knight), the fire has high hitboxes which makes it hard to jump over him, so you can't really do an option select between his options, if he flies high you can just slide under him and avoid everything, when he flies low it's a different story, and since he can switch between flying low and flying high so quickly, it only becomes more unreliable.

Then again, characters with long distance dash in invincibles already probably can beat him without taking hits, if Dogether corners them and is flying low, they can just use the move and avoid everything.

I found a workaround to the Sakuya bug where if you press up,qcf+C fast enough, the A version will come out. Do the command but press forward. That will do the C version and propel her forward. This way, the bug won't or almost won't happen.

Yeah, I'm aware of this, problem is that my muscle memory is used to do it faster, which means I end inputs with d/f a lot, so it's hard to get rid of this habit lol.

Also, Serio, should Great Minotaur really be in tier 4? He's a seriously weak boss, he only has the high damage in his favor, but everything else is so easy to react and avoid, even in Nightmare, that his damage doesn't matter, I know he used to be tougher than this when his petrying cloud stayed longer on screen, which created some unavoidable/nearly unavoidable situations with characters who couldn't stay in the air for long (Never really tested to be sure if the others could avoid it), but that's gone now, he's the easiest boss on the game, easier than all the other no damage bosses, he should be in tier 2.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 09:33:12 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2015, 03:48:54 PM »
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boosted minotaur's animation speeds a bit, he should act faster on hard modes now.
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Offline fatfishwen

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2015, 02:59:48 AM »
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Well it needs more than just practice to defeat some of the boss without taking a damage, not to mention on Nightmare...
Is there any plan to make Somacular a "normal" boss in future?
BTW, is Remilia still there in this version?

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2015, 03:23:29 AM »
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Is there any plan to make Somacular a "normal" boss in future?

What do you mean by that? Make him a boss which can be fought outside of Nightmare mode?

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BTW, is Remilia still there in this version?

Yes, Survival mode only though.

Post Merge: September 11, 2015, 04:57:03 PM
Added Nathan to the Lesser Demon section, also added Dogether to the character specific list, guess Cerberus is the only boss in tier 2 who can't be beaten without taking hits by anyone lol.

I'm thinking that maybe Great Werewolf can be beaten without taking hits, possible candidates are Charlotte (Ice Needles) and Reimu (double shot Yin-Yang Orbs), Marias (Their Normals and Azure Dragon), and Jokenathan (double shot Curry, Wrecking Ball), those moves mentioned between "()" are their best moves to kill the wolves Great Werewolf summons, theoricaly they can be used in a way to kill the wolves and avoid Great Werewolf's attacks.

Also, assuming the tiers are the same when Somacula arrives, without patch99, you'll face at the very least 6 bosses who everyone can beat without taking hits, so I guess the number of Perfects/Awesomes needed could be around that (Again, assuming the tiers are the same until then).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 05:02:29 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2015, 03:16:52 AM »
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Added Great Werewolf to the character specific list, more characters are there than I expected lol.

Also Serio, I noticed Great Werewolf takes less damage from Richter's up,qcf+A or C than Juste's up,qcf+A, does Great Werewolf have higher resistance to ice or is Richter hitting harder than he should against bosses?

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2015, 04:28:04 AM »
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juste's fist deals more damage than richter's attack. the attack values aren't exactly uniform, i usually just pick a value that feels right and then adjust it. lol.

and yeah, richter's whip dash deals 16 more damage points to ai enemies.
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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2015, 01:19:48 PM »
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Also about Great Werewolf how exactly do you avoid the dashing slash? I get cornered too early to be able to avoid it in time.
(I think the main issue is how NOT to get cornered.)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2015, 01:26:47 PM »
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Also about Great Werewolf how exactly do you avoid the dashing slash? I get cornered too early to be able to avoid it in time.
(I think the main issue is how NOT to get cornered.)

Backdash once he gets close, most important thing on this matchup is learning when to backdash once he starts running, takes a while to get the timing though lol.

To avoid getting cornered, jump before he finishes an attack, that will make his AI do an uppercut, then just super jump forward to avoid the uppercut.

Post Merge: September 18, 2015, 02:39:58 AM
Now that Great Minotaur isn't the most laughable boss on the game anymore, he has a proper section.

I'll admit I got killed on the first times I fought him, actualy having to respect him is weird lol.

That aside, I added Juste to Lesser Demon's section since the long recovery from his up,qcf+A can be cancelled, also added Frog to Great Werewolf's section, updated Astarte's section to mention Yoko's f,f attack instead of her normals.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 02:39:58 AM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 11:45:41 AM »
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It's worth mentioning that if you always stay far from Great Minotaur, he will almost never use the gas attack or the axe slash. I think this is only viable on characters who can attack while crouching and have long range and cancelable attacks.

After reading the strategies you listed (again, great job), in my opinion could you maybe put stars to show whether they are easy, intermediate or hard? It could maybe make things easier for players just starting nightmare difficulty so that they can either try the easy ones first or daringly go to the harder ones.
(Not required for character-specific ones, they are based on what characters they like to play.)

As I see it, Abaddon, Dario, Blackmore, and Great Minotaur (maybe though) are the easiest, while Skull Knight is a challenge to get perfect on.

I wonder though, who's going to replace Great Minotaur as the most laughable boss?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 12:57:20 PM »
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After reading the strategies you listed (again, great job), in my opinion could you maybe put stars to show whether they are easy, intermediate or hard? It could maybe make things easier for players just starting nightmare difficulty so that they can either try the easy ones first or daringly go to the harder ones.
(Not required for character-specific ones, they are based on what characters they like to play.)

I'll see about that, but even in the universal list there'll be variables, like Skull Knight or Carmilla for example, they're significantly easier with a flight character.

Quote
As I see it, Abaddon, Dario, Blackmore, and Great Minotaur (maybe though) are the easiest, while Skull Knight is a challenge to get perfect on.

I don't think Great Minotaur is as easy as those two anymore though, or maybe I'm saying this because I still struggle to fight by respecting him lol.

Quote
I wonder though, who's going to replace Great Minotaur as the most laughable boss?

Abaddon probably, or maybe Giant Bat.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2015, 03:07:17 AM »
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As requested by Anonymous, I added a difficulty list for each boss (Includes character specific ones), aside from that, I added Sonia to Dracula's and Dogether's sections, corrected an info on Zephyr section (He may use his charge move when his HP is below 500, not something "as high" as around half as I listed previously), and added some more character specific info on Zephyr's section.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2015, 07:09:15 AM »
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not 500 life, 1/6 of his max life. it's variable depending from his max health. later in survival he'll be using it more often because of that.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2015, 12:07:51 PM »
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Corrected, also added some more information about his teleport.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2015, 03:00:50 PM »
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Added Cerberus to the character specific list, I was honestly shocked to find out it's possible to beat him without taking hits, that's because flight characters can avoid both of his anti airs while ironicaly flying.

With this, if a character can fly and has invincible dash in moves, they can get a triple shot with patch99 before even reaching Agni/Dario.

By the way, it's theoricaly possible to beat Cerberus without taking hits with everyone, if you crouch when he's far, he'll just walk to you and use his dash bite attack, and then you can avoid it with a super jump forward, and that ends his corner pressure, then make him use whatever other attack and repeat this until he dies, far easier said than done though, dash bite is very fast, and if you use a super jump slightly too early he'll use the fireballs, so you'll still be cornered, and if you super jump a bit too late, the dash bite will hit you, I have no idea if that can be done consistently, but at least it looks like he'll use the dash bite in the same place (Near the platform), so maybe it is possible, but it's very hard if so.

Also, Serio, since bosses will get more buffs on the next patch, will that affect helper objects as well? I'm kinda worried about fighting Paranoia with his mini Paranoia having more HP and higher deffense, it might make things complicated for some characters against Dracula on the last part of the fight too...

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »
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So now it's possible to get perfect on all tier 2 bosses! :D (that is if we don't get any more bosses in tier 2 in the next beta)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2015, 04:37:33 PM »
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So now it's possible to get perfect on all tier 2 bosses! :D (that is if we don't get any more bosses in tier 2 in the next beta)

Well, I checked both the "arcade mode tiers" and the "list of shit i'll add", and the only bosses who aren't listed in any tier are Isaac, Pazuzu and Jiang Shi. Isaac, I don't see him anywhere that isn't tier 7, at the very most in tier 8, but it'd look weird for him to possibly show up after Death, the other two, they might be put in tier 2 (Can't be sure of where they'll be put, Abaddon was the penultimate boss in DoS, yet, he's in tier 2 here, while Flying Armor was the first boss in DoS and he's a tier 4 boss here, so things can be different from what you'd expect lol).

Edit: And I wonder how I failed to notice this, the "list of shit i'll add" mentions the possibility of Slogra+Gaibon becoming bosses if it doesn't feel right for them to be player characters, so they possibly could end up in tier 2.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 04:44:55 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2015, 06:56:27 PM »
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not sure about paranoia yet (like every helper object he uses origin's def so on max he gets hit for 1. need to do something about that), but i just changed dracula's bats so they die in 1 hit now and deal pitiful damage regardless of his str, but respawn constantly. they'll be an annoyance now rather than a wall to go through. lol.
Dracula was here

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2015, 07:24:55 PM »
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not sure about paranoia yet (like every helper object he uses origin's def so on max he gets hit for 1. need to do something about that), but i just changed dracula's bats so they die in 1 hit now and deal pitiful damage regardless of his str, but respawn constantly. they'll be an annoyance now rather than a wall to go through. lol.

Heh, Sakuya will be able to f,f attack Dracula 4th part of the fight all day now lol.

Are the bats going to be more agressive now? Because each bat swarm attacked once every 4 seconds or so, and some characters will be able to destroy all of them without much trouble, in those cases, the bats will barely make a difference if their attack pattern is unchanged.

Also, I did some more testing against Cerberus, he might become viable to be beaten without taking damage universaly on the next patch, the strategy I found is to stay near a platform, and when he's getting close, crouch to avoid the fire/ice/electric balls, then he'll do one more step, and when he's ready to attack, super jump forward, then use a double jump to reach the middle platform, which will avoid any pattern of the fire/ice/electric balls and the firebreath, then you need to go down, depending on the attack he used while you jumped, you should escape from the platform either by super jumping forward to create distance or dropping from it, I recommend the second option because that way the character can escape from both the anti air fire breath and the jump. The reason why it's not viable now is because Cerberus has a glitch where he can randomly use his grounded moves when you're in the air or in a platform, and when he does that, he ruins the strat because you need to escape from the middle platform at an specific time, Cerberus is too fast for you to be able to see and react to whatever he'll use, so right now it isn't viable.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2015, 07:28:50 PM »
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they respawn every second or so and he can have from 1 to 4 on screen depending from difficulty. their main goal is to hit you out of your attack patterns while you try to attack his head to allow him to charge up his attack.

he can still teleport away and will summon a full set when he does that.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 07:39:38 PM by serio »
Dracula was here

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2015, 05:22:41 PM »
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Added Medusa to the character specific section, it's probably incomplete, haven't tested with enough characters to know how many of them can beat her without taking hits.

I'll possibly put Akmodan eventualy, probably on the universal list, his projectiles can be avoided by everyone it seems, even by characters like Carrie or 8-bit Simon.

The list is probably almost done now, Akmodan aside, I see only few bosses possibly entering it, Ciclops, Richter, Shaft and Brauner (Sonia will probably be the only one who'd be able to beat him without taking hits though, maybe Jonathans too) are those bosses, though I'm really not sure if it's possible to beat them (Richter is theoricaly possible with characters with invincible dash-ins, but the main problem is how he can use Agunea at up close range, which can hit the character when you jump over him, and I'm not sure if there's a way to prevent him from doing that, you'd also need to pay very close attention to when he can use item crashes on the second part of the fight).

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2015, 10:17:15 AM »
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I always thought Akmodan would one day be on the list. Keep forgetting to suggest it lol.

Also based on your thoughts of final possible bosses on the list, in my opinion:

Cyclops: I would say it's possible, but I'm still thinking if he will go to the universal or character specific (noted that some characters can fight better at close range). A method is backdashing and super jumping at the right moments. And don't get cornered to make sure you don't get hit by his "hammer jump". He's probably easier than skull knight, but harder than some bosses (so maybe between medium and hard).

Shaft: So first form is simple. Damaging dash moves not recommended. Second form requires much more attention to the orbs, escpecially the blue lightning (?) to time the jump correctly. Wouldn't really suggest characters with difficulties against flying bosses in his section if you'll add him one day.

Brauner: What I don't understand is why only Sonia and Jonathans can defeat him perfectly. Is it because of the MUGEN bug with the blood?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2015, 12:46:00 PM »
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Cyclops: I would say it's possible, but I'm still thinking if he will go to the universal or character specific (noted that some characters can fight better at close range). A method is backdashing and super jumping at the right moments. And don't get cornered to make sure you don't get hit by his "hammer jump". He's probably easier than skull knight, but harder than some bosses (so maybe between medium and hard).

I honestly feel like he has a better control of the pace of the match than Skull Knight because of the range of his Hammer + the rocks when he hits the hammer on the ground, avoiding the corner is harder too because you can only really jump over him when he uses his dash in attack (Which I already feel it's hard to avoid because he starts it subtly), he also has different versions of his hammer attack where he delays it a bit, which makes it harder to avoid it.

Quote
Shaft: So first form is simple. Damaging dash moves not recommended. Second form requires much more attention to the orbs, escpecially the blue lightning (?) to time the jump correctly. Wouldn't really suggest characters with difficulties against flying bosses in his section if you'll add him one day.

My biggest worry about Shaft are the other two orbs attacks, specialy the fire one, both have a way to be avoided but I'm not sure if there's a definite way to do so because of the way they randomly move, so far it looks like the fire orbs are better to be avoided in open field, and the collored ones on the corner. Lightning orbs can be avoided by everyone with a backdash, then a jump, as long as the vertical lightning isn't in the way to hit the jumping character, it also has the "randomly positioned orbs" problem as the others, but it isn't as bad.

Quote
Brauner: What I don't understand is why only Sonia and Jonathans can defeat him perfectly. Is it because of the MUGEN bug with the blood?

The reason why Brauner isn't universaly viable is because of his blood attack, the random positions he uses it will make him hit you eventualy, becomes even worse when he uses the flying ciclops heads attack, even if you backdash near him and crouch, Brauner can attack while there still are flying ciclops heads, so your options to escape are limited, but Sonia and Jonathan are the only characters on the game who have an invincible non chargeable move which lets them stand still, Sonia's qcf attack and Jonathan's up,qcf attack, they can cut off all of Brauner's blood art technique options if you use them properly, and theoricaly can avoid taking hits when Brauner has the flying ciclops heads pressure, but I'm not sure if that's possible, and the reason why I say Sonia has a bigger chance of being able to do it is because she can use qcf attack, then use another, then another, then another, and be invincible as long as you can do it (It's pretty strict) and have enough MP.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2015, 08:58:32 PM »
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It's been a long road for Great Minotaur in 0.6.whatever versions.

Started as a laughable boss, then recently got some juicy buffs, then got even even more in 0.6.17, and now he's around the same level as Skull Knight, updated his section a bit.

Also since bosses don't get close to characters anymore at the beginning of the fight, that changed the matchup against Carmilla and Astarte on the beginning of the fight, Carmilla got easier while Astarte got harder.

Blackmore also looks like he got a bit harder, the orb attack which falls on the character looks like it has more active frames, which makes it harder to backdash to avoid it, still possible though, not sure if he should leave the "easy" category.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2015, 02:06:33 PM »
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Frog can kill Skull Knight no damage, no mana/heart use without great problems since beam can't hit it when on ground. The key is to keep distance to provoke boss to use beam (it only use beam and one of his dashes if far enough). While Skull Knight firing beam you can come and attack him twice easily (don't forget to backdash after each attack to avoid bones), then run away and prepare to jump to the opposite side of the room over dashing boss. After some training you can keep him doing only those 2 attacks.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2015, 03:13:12 PM »
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Frog can kill Skull Knight no damage, no mana/heart use without great problems since beam can't hit it when on ground. The key is to keep distance to provoke boss to use beam (it only use beam and one of his dashes if far enough). While Skull Knight firing beam you can come and attack him twice easily (don't forget to backdash after each attack to avoid bones), then run away and prepare to jump to the opposite side of the room over dashing boss. After some training you can keep him doing only those 2 attacks.

Skull Knight is already listed, he's an universal boss, everyone can beat him without taking hits, but I'll mention Frog's unique advantage on his section (Only wrote he could walk under the beam, but didn't mention he could attack twice).

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2016, 05:51:02 PM »
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Decided to stop being lazy and wrote a section for Akmodan, also updated Dracula's section, it had outdated info, removed Jokenathan from the characters who can beat him without taking hits, curry doesn't destroy the projectiles from phase 2 anymore, which is a big problem, paper airplane isn't as reliable, and I don't think he has solid ways to destroy the bats in phase 4, added Richters/Hanz, Julius, Sakuya and Reimu to Dracula's section.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2016, 12:49:11 PM »
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Wait, so that "glitch" was intentional? Or do we just have to wait till next patch?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2016, 12:51:42 PM »
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Wait, so that "glitch" was intentional? Or do we just have to wait till next patch?

What glitch? The projectiles ignoring the curry? It's not intentional, but it's there, and it affects the matchup heavily, so it needs to be mentioned.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2016, 09:38:51 PM »
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Updated Zephyr's section a bit, now instead of listing how to fight him with only zoning tools, I also added up close strats, also updated Agni's a bit to mention how to attack him if the character doesn't have a proper anti air.

Edit: Also Serio, maybe boss Richter's heart meter could be visible? Or maybe his MP bar could flash white before he can use item crashes, just to make it possible to see when he can use his item crashes, instead of having to time everything in your head.

Edit 2: Forgot to mention the situation of Zephyr throwing daggers instead of doing the bitchslap, if that happens, during the backdash, jump to avoid them.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 01:47:30 AM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2016, 10:46:31 PM »
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Although Remilia isn't a boss you can fight in Arcade mode, I've decided to put her on the list, I've used her default stage to write the matchup. but it also works in larger stages.

I was surprised to find out she's one of the bosses you can beat without taking hits, always thought that if she was flying low during specific attacks, you would basicaly be fucked, but her blind spots are wide enough for you to avoid her attacks even in that situation, she can fly too low anf fuck you up, but there's some ways to stop her from flying low, which is by jumping, and it only happens under very specific situations.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2016, 10:49:52 AM »
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This time I'm really starting to doubt whether Lesser Demon should stay in the list or not. (Or at least it could be written as very hard)

Now that he needs a full mp bar to summon the skulls, there is less open space for free hits. Even jumping to avoid the poison spit makes him fly and punch anyways, and forces contact damage afterwards.

So far I could still get perfect/awesome using characters with "reliable" dashes, like Julius, Sakuya, etc.


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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2016, 01:46:29 PM »
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This time I'm really starting to doubt whether Lesser Demon should stay in the list or not. (Or at least it could be written as very hard)

Now that he needs a full mp bar to summon the skulls, there is less open space for free hits. Even jumping to avoid the poison spit makes him fly and punch anyways, and forces contact damage afterwards.

So far I could still get perfect/awesome using characters with "reliable" dashes, like Julius, Sakuya, etc.

You actualy could attack him after he did 4 out of 6 of his attacks, if her used the projectiles, you could do a single jump, move forward a bit, which would make you avoid both of them, then attack him, the upwards jump poison attack, you could jump and attack him, theoricaly you could also backdash at his direction instead, there's the obvious skull summon, and his regular jump in case you weren't cornered, attack him then backdash immediately, just the punch and the backwards jump poison attack you couldn't really attack him with normals, and the backwards jump one, you probably could throw a quick projectile, in fact, like Balore, I was actualy suspecting he was a boss you could beat without taking hits with everyone.

Anyway, I removed him from the list, he's way too random now, some of the reliable options you could use before to avoid his shit aren't reliable anymore, his pressure is pretty strong now because of his quick jumps and more use of the punch, he may sometimes do a quick jump which can force contact damage, or he can instead do a quick jump, then use the punch in mid air, which is even faster, and if you jump to go behind him when he jumps, he may fly backwards a bit to force contact damage, and if that fail, he may use his punch if he's close enough, he's ridiculous now, I'll assume Serio made those changes to actualy make him threatening on other stages like The Abyss, he was just terrible in those, now he can do something there, but now he puts an overwhelming pressure in his own stage.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2016, 03:08:19 AM »
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Small updates on the list, Blackmore's info was really outdated, the pillars now last for longer and just staying at the corner crouching won't avoid most of his shit anymore, and Astarte, just removed the info of the beginning of the fight, since she now starts far enough to not have that deadly mix up anymore, and also Giant Bat, now you need to manipulate him a bit so he doesn't fly too slow.

Basicaly, everyone got buffed except Astarte, lol.

Stella received some nerfs in her moveset, she might be a boss which everyone can beat without taking hits now, since it looks like if you control her height, you'll be able to avoid any sort of contact damage or other moves, though I'm not sure if you can always do that, at the very least she'll be in the character specific list, with at least Grant being in there, and it's not even because of his double axes, it's because his qcf attack just destroys her (The curse makes her lose MP, which limits her options).

Balore can also be put on the universal list, but I still haven't figured out all the option selects for the fight for every character, so that might take a while, if you guys want to have an idea on how it works, watch Alexoful's most recent Maxim playthrough, since he figured it out how to do it.

Also, I'll just say here, Astarte is a really boring boss, and I don't mean that she's boring now, she's always been boring, Temptation wasting MP now actualy can leave some room for her to be attacked more often between other attacks, but she still is the easiest boss in the game to outzoned, so she could use some buffs in her moveset to be able to counter zoning.

One of her biggest weak points is her curse jump attack, it's just the best move for her to use to fuck herself, because when she uses it, she corners herself, and it's very easy to avoid being cornered because of this move, and making her use this move is what makes her so easy, she could instead start to track the player, maybe try to hit the character based on the distance and height, so if you're on the ground before she jumps, she uses the version of the move she has now, but if you jump before she jumps, then she jumps higher to try to hit you, but by doing so, she could leave a gap for a character to be able to walk under her curse, and to make it more threatening, she could jump faster with it, but have a bit worse recovery since this would be her move to use to get close.

Her wind attack also could be more threatening, be more than "I'll just bait her into using this so I can attack her", maybe it could have more range, that way zoners would actualy respect it, plus it could be a nice little mix up between the jump attack and the wind attack on the corner, though, she shouldn't be able to use it after the hearts attack, so up close characters can avoid the hearts and be able to avoid other attacks while close to her.

Basicaly, what I'm thinking here, is to make the matchup a bit closer to how she works if you fight her in The Wasteland, plus with a buffed jump curse attack, she might be able to do something in a stage like The Abyss.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2016, 11:26:33 AM »
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In case of Aguni, it should be mentioned that his move where he crashes down requires full mp bar.
This doesn't make fighting him perfectly any harder, except the startup causes contact damage. So when you're under him watch his mp bar i suppose, especially when avoiding his wave and claw attacks.

Also, how do you make great armor walk back? It never works for me and i get cornered.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2016, 07:38:20 PM »
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In case of Aguni, it should be mentioned that his move where he crashes down requires full mp bar.
This doesn't make fighting him perfectly any harder, except the startup causes contact damage. So when you're under him watch his mp bar i suppose, especially when avoiding his wave and claw attacks.

I did consider to mention the changes on Agni, but I didn't mention the option select you could do, which was backdash and you'll avoid all of his attack, so there wasn't a need to mention his changes, but I decided to put in there anyway.

Quote
Also, how do you make great armor walk back? It never works for me and i get cornered.

Get close to him after he does an attack, that's it really.

Also updated Great Armor's section a bit, just removed the Master Skeleton part, he no longer has any trouble to deal with Great Armor, also mentioned how to make him walk backwards there.

By the way, Agni starts the fight without MP, don't think that should happen.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2016, 04:16:18 AM »
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Although Remilia isn't a boss you can fight in Arcade mode, I've decided to put her on the list, I've used her default stage to write the matchup. but it also works in larger stages.

I was surprised to find out she's one of the bosses you can beat without taking hits, always thought that if she was flying low during specific attacks, you would basicaly be fucked, but her blind spots are wide enough for you to avoid her attacks even in that situation, she can fly too low anf fuck you up, but there's some ways to stop her from flying low, which is by jumping, and it only happens under very specific situations.
I swear to god,remilia is freaking hard.
not only she fast and hard to hit,when she cast gungnir while flying low,you always get hit by his laser.And she often fly directly toward me+her draining attack
Beautiful yet fleeting,it flickers and perishes.
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All that remains is sadness and long-neglected memories.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2016, 01:24:46 PM »
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I swear to god,remilia is freaking hard.
not only she fast and hard to hit,when she cast gungnir while flying low,you always get hit by his laser.And she often fly directly toward me+her draining attack

I don't know what gungnir is but, all of her attacks can be avoided in one way or the other, and I don't think she's hard to hit at all, all of her attacks besides the orbs and the grab leave her wide open long enough for you to jump and do some strikes, and that attack with the white circles around her leave her wide open between attacks, you have more than enough opportunities to attack her, you just need to know when.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2016, 08:20:15 PM »
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I don't know what gungnir is but, all of her attacks can be avoided in one way or the other, and I don't think she's hard to hit at all, all of her attacks besides the orbs and the grab leave her wide open long enough for you to jump and do some strikes, and that attack with the white circles around her leave her wide open between attacks, you have more than enough opportunities to attack her, you just need to know when.
Gungnir is her spear.
Maybe im still not experienced enough,for me her main factor is high defense (even with julius)
Beautiful yet fleeting,it flickers and perishes.
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All that remains is sadness and long-neglected memories.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2016, 02:43:25 AM »
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Gungnir is her spear.
Maybe im still not experienced enough,for me her main factor is high defense (even with julius)

Julius has axes, that automaticaly gives him a great way to damage her, his Grand Cross can probably be used to damage her in some situations too.

As for her attacks, well, keep getting beaten until you learn, if you want to do no damage against her, you need to be able to react ASAP to her patterns, things like being able to backdash into safe spots can help too.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2016, 07:16:05 AM »
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I've been wondering about this, but how do you think abaddon can be buffed and not as laughable anymore,  while still viable to get perfect for all characters?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2016, 03:43:18 PM »
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I've been wondering about this, but how do you think abaddon can be buffed and not as laughable anymore,  while still viable to get perfect for all characters?

Perhaps making him work more like how he did in DoS, because while most bosses got harder from their original games to CVF, Abaddon got far easier.

He could become a combination of how he worked in DoS (attacks lasting for less time, but better pressure, but then attacks would be avoidable without going to the corner), and CVF (Him being able to move while he attacks), that could at least make him a bit harder since staying at the corner wouldn't save you.

Offline Zufeng

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2016, 01:45:13 PM »
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I think we can make abaddon to jump more often,even when in middle of his locust swarm
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All that remains is sadness and long-neglected memories.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2016, 03:48:42 PM »
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I think we can make abaddon to jump more often,even when in middle of his locust swarm

He already does that.

The thing is, with the way Abaddon is made right now, there are only really 3 options to how he can work, patheticaly easy, unfairly hard, or just RNG, and that's simply because of the ammount of time the locusts stay on the screen, that means that the best place you can be in is always the corner, he's patheticaly easy because he doesn't have much to hit you while you're in there, for him to become unfairly hard, he'd need to start jumping into you when you're in the corner when he uses his sideways "U" attack, and RNG, he'd just need to jump into you when you're in the corner when he uses the sideways "U" attacks at random, which is how he worked before.

Making him work more like DoS version is pretty much another boss, because CVF Abaddon is radicaly different from the original, by making him work that way, the locusts wouldn't be on screen for long, meaning that hiding on the corner wouldn't be the absolute solution to save yourself (Although it was still possible to do that in DoS, but you'd have to keep attacking the locusts), when he uses the sideways U attack, you'd have to jump to avoid it, the U attack, is pretty different, since even if Abaddon jumps into the corner, you can walk forward a bit, avoid him, while not being hit by the locusts.

Basicaly, the biggest change needed would be for the sideways U attack to last for less time but also hit on the corner, which means the matchup wouldn't be about hiding yourself in the corner anymore, it'd be about staying close to him and jump on reaction to his sideways U attack, everything else is fine.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2016, 03:31:46 PM »
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Abaddon's U attacks were changed, so now you can't just stay on the corner and avoid all of his attacks, now fighting him is actualy fun.

I wrote how to do no damage against him, for some time I thought 8-bit SImon could avoid his sideways U attack when Abaddon is at the corner, but you can avoid it just fine with a jump, super jump, f,f attack, so Abaddon is still a boss who everyone can do no damage against.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2016, 08:13:16 AM »
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Since he's no longer a laughable boss, I guess the next title holder is wyvern or giant bat i suppose.....


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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #76 on: July 30, 2016, 10:09:14 PM »
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Since he's no longer a laughable boss, I guess the next title holder is wyvern or giant bat i suppose.....

Astarte and Dario would also be on this list, and the hardest one of those is Giant Bat, he's "hard enough" for a boss that is so consistently weak in the series, even in classicvanias.

Wyvern would be the second hardest because of some situations on the corner, though avoiding the corner is possible, so you should just pay attention.

Dario, well, the thing is that he's screwed by the way the game works, zoning in this game is really strong (Much better than Metroidvanias for the most part because MP recovers fast enough), so his moveset being made around to make it harder to get close to him is the equivalent of giving someone a knife to fight a plane for most of the cast, the pressure he puts is just alright, if he were to become harder, then he'd need proper anti zoning tools (Which usualy translates to actualy getting close to the opponent).

Astarte is a case similar to Dario's, only even more laughable, she's an okay difficulty if you have to fight her at close range, but only 3 characters have to do so, everyone else can just zone one way or the other.

Giant Bat and Wyvern are almost okay as they are, if one thing were to be changed, is how you can lock Wyvern's AI a bit with his short dash attack everytime you're below him, you can easily just manipulate him with this, making him use the short dash, tehn backdash to go behind him when he uses another attack, then make sure to below him when he's finished with the other attack, too easy to beat him like this lol.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2016, 05:24:20 PM »
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Added Stella to the list.

Basicaly what you need to do is control her height, and not let her corner you, though nowadays it's because of Crescent Moon's pressure, not because she'll be an asshole and do contact damage while throwing Hurricanes while dashing forward.

I haven't been playing CVF lately (Should be obvious enough by the sudden decrease of bug reports lol), which I guess it's natural to happen since I played it almost every day for one year and a half, so for now I'm stopping, that means I won't find a possible strategy to beat a boss without taking hits, Stella is here because she was requested, and I had the theory on how to beat her without taking hits mostly created anyway, I just needed to put it to practice and make the necessary changes, Balore is another boss who can be added to the universal list, but finding an universal strategy is pain in the ass, but from what I've gathered so far, is that once he starts using those fire wave, the fight becomes a hit and run, when you want to attack, he's better to be at the middle, and when you need to go to the corner, backdash or jump when he's supposed to use the fire wave, that way you avoid it if he uses on that side of the corner, and you can run forward to avoid the other one with more than enough time, basicaly, the fight becomes one big option select, and I haven't covered every situation yet.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2016, 01:56:31 PM »
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There are some things in here that I think could be mentioned or changed:
-Jokejonathan's cream pie does magical damage now, so not suggested to use against Astarte
-Carmilla doesn't always start the battle with the dash, but happens quite often
-Should be mentioned when fighting Wyvern and you want to damage him while he's in the middle of an attack, that he can cancel the fireball and firebreath attacks if you get behind him, but when he's doing the fire wave, both forms, he won't cancel it even if you get behind


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #79 on: November 25, 2016, 06:36:08 PM »
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There are some things in here that I think could be mentioned or changed:
-Jokejonathan's cream pie does magical damage now, so not suggested to use against Astarte
-Carmilla doesn't always start the battle with the dash, but happens quite often
-Should be mentioned when fighting Wyvern and you want to damage him while he's in the middle of an attack, that he can cancel the fireball and firebreath attacks if you get behind him, but when he's doing the fire wave, both forms, he won't cancel it even if you get behind

Added those, also added universal strategies to Balore and moved him to the universal list.

Also the first post has over 72,000 characters, starting to think that someday the 100,000 characters limit won't be enough, specialy if more bosses need long explanations lol.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2016, 04:42:08 AM »
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Added those, also added universal strategies to Balore and moved him to the universal list.

Also the first post has over 72,000 characters, starting to think that someday the 100,000 characters limit won't be enough, specialy if more bosses need long explanations lol.

Well, based on this thread http://serio.piiym.net/cvbla/board/index.php?topic=10.0 the ones that seem viable (to be fair, I'm basing them on how they were in their respective games, so I may be well off) are most likely Pazuzu, Malphas, Legion, Necromancer, Puppet Master, and maybe SotN Succubus. Not to forget, we might be getting some more that are not in the list like Celia, Graham, and Walter, who might require a lot of explanations should they be viable for perfect/awesome. Probably start a new thread continuing it with the link in the first post?

Also, I've been thinking, we were certain there would be a lot of characters to sprite before we eventually run out, but the probability of running out of bosses to add seems a lot higher, because what does a boss have to be like, to be able to be included in this? (Heck, we don't have any bosses from Bloodlines, but every suggestions about those in the textboard have been rejected)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2016, 06:44:21 AM »
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Well, based on this thread http://serio.piiym.net/cvbla/board/index.php?topic=10.0 the ones that seem viable (to be fair, I'm basing them on how they were in their respective games, so I may be well off) are most likely Pazuzu, Malphas, Legion, Necromancer, Puppet Master, and maybe SotN Succubus. Not to forget, we might be getting some more that are not in the list like Celia, Graham, and Walter, who might require a lot of explanations should they be viable for perfect/awesome. Probably start a new thread continuing it with the link in the first post?

I honestly wouldn't assume any boss will be a no damage boss, I mean, look at lesser demon, he was like any other SotN boss, a piece of shit, and here he's a powerhouse who before was viable against some characters, now he's so random he isn't viable at all, lol.

Celia and Graham might not be though, Celia will summon monsters and being able to kill all of them safely would be complicated, and Graham will leave hitboxes around, and unless he's made in a similar way Dario is made, then he probably won't be a no damage boss.

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Also, I've been thinking, we were certain there would be a lot of characters to sprite before we eventually run out, but the probability of running out of bosses to add seems a lot higher, because what does a boss have to be like, to be able to be included in this? (Heck, we don't have any bosses from Bloodlines, but every suggestions about those in the textboard have been rejected)

It seems like what a boss needs is a certain uniqueness to them, Graham was rejected before because he's a Dracula clone, and SotN Creature became a survival only boss after Cyclops was added because they supposedly are the same boss.

Anyways, I haven't played Bloodlines, though I watched videos, weird all bosses are rejected, if someone sucks, just change them so they don't suck, it's what Serio did with Lesser Demon and Cerberus after all, two very boring bosses from SotN, who are now among the CVF's most dangerous bosses.

Hellhound, I don't know if it does anything besides breaking glasses, so I won't say anything.

Golem is a boss I don't really see being added, all he does is walk forward and backwards, and make rocks fall from the ceiling, there are better choices than this, though if I were to choose, Loi Golem seems like the best bet since he has a decent ammount of attacks, both at close range and long range, also in Crazy mode each step makes rocks fall from the ceiling, perhaps he could be combined with HoD's.

Skull Dragon, no, lol, unless he was used as support for another boss.

Water mage, just no, come on lol.

The Armor bosses, honestly, most of them look whatever, the first one looks fine though, decent ammount of attacks, and a nice random factor, speed him up and he could be a decent addition.

The Creature, at most attacks from it could be given to PoR Creature, though I only really see the thunder ground punch being used, which, SotN Creature already has a similar version.

The Gear boss looks like it'd be more fitting to be a kind of boss who tries to get away from the player, it's moveset seems to be more of few physical attacks and more projectiles and moves that put it away from you.

Those face statues look boring, would need more attacks than just projectiles that bounce around, can't think of anything though.

That moss thing tries to throw some probably poisonous shit at you, attack you directly and lay eggs, more mosses could come out from them, or maybe we could steal the larvae that eggs hatch from the moss boss battle from DMC2, which would give it much better ground control.

Elizabeth is a boss I can easily see why she'd be rejected, I only watched videos, but that battles looks as fun as watching the grass grow in slow motion, though, boring doesn't mean impossible to fix.

First of all, her capacity to teleport when she takes a hit, that's her gimmick so it should stay, but the fixes start immediately, first of all, her not taking damage when those orbs are out? Change it so she takes damage, and once you break all orbs she could not be able to teleport for a bit, so you can beat her, she also should be able to actualy attack, so her teleport should be a lot faster, maybe something near Remilia's level.

Also if I remember correctly, that second form of Dracula is not Dracula, but some old witch who resurrected Elizabeth, and curiously, she has an attack similar to what Death uses in PoR's final battle, she also powers up Dracula just like Death did... Anyways, she could always fight alongside Elizabeth, it'd be a decent way to kind of copy PoR's final boss battle without adding another Dracula and another Death, plus with some of their own gimmicks so they aren't a copy and paste.

Both could still have some more moves, Elizabeth would probably be better if she stole that Medusa fire attack from that Medusa she summons, maybe they could also have duo attacks like Dracula and Death had, but eh, I've thought enough about this lol.

Besides Dracula, I'm probably forgetting someone, but oh well, lol.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2016, 07:40:51 AM »
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Hellhound, I don't know if it does anything besides breaking glasses, so I won't say anything.

Besides a short lunge forward, glass breaking, and a firebreath, nothing special. This boss was rejected because design-wise (his attacks are to be fair, unique) he is very similar to Cerberus. Also, with attacks depending on terrain, it would be a bit difficult to organize in survival, same reason why she-wolf from Chronicles isn't added and instead became an alternate skin for Player Werewolf.

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Skull Dragon, no, lol, unless he was used as support for another boss.

Well, this kind of boss has had many appearances, so maybe something like this could be added, combining many attacks from its many iterations? (or just take the flesh version, Hydra from DXC) I just remembered someone suggested to use something like skull dragon to be one of Somacula's familiar and it should behave like that skeletal dragon in Chaos's second form in AoS (weren't you the one who did?).

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The Armor bosses, honestly, most of them look whatever, the first one looks fine though, decent ammount of attacks, and a nice random factor, speed him up and he could be a decent addition.

The Mecha Knight one? Yeah, maybe he could use all his moves (jump, attacks with mace and axe, kicks, spinning the mace around) without needing to be partly destroyed like in the boss fights videos lol.

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The Gear boss looks like it'd be more fitting to be a kind of boss who tries to get away from the player, it's moveset seems to be more of few physical attacks and more projectiles and moves that put it away from you.

To be honest, I would like to see this boss in this game someday lol.

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That moss thing tries to throw some probably poisonous shit at you, attack you directly and lay eggs, more mosses could come out from them, or maybe we could steal the larvae that eggs hatch from the moss boss battle from DMC2, which would give it much better ground control.

This was the boss I saw being suggested a few times, but the reason they rejected this one was because she had only few attacks, I think only three? Scattering poison powder, eggs spawning small moths, and swooping at the player, so maybe those extra attacks or changes could make her quite pressuring.

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Also if I remember correctly, that second form of Dracula is not Dracula, but some old witch who resurrected Elizabeth, and curiously, she has an attack similar to what Death uses in PoR's final battle, she also powers up Dracula just like Death did... Anyways, she could always fight alongside Elizabeth, it'd be a decent way to kind of copy PoR's final boss battle without adding another Dracula and another Death, plus with some of their own gimmicks so they aren't a copy and paste.

Great reason to add both "Lizzie" and Drac's so-called second form. Will they act a bit like Igor and the Creature, or will only one of them be able to be hit by an attack?

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Both could still have some more moves, Elizabeth would probably be better if she stole that Medusa fire attack from that Medusa she summons, maybe they could also have duo attacks like Dracula and Death had, but eh, I've thought enough about this lol.

Not sure if that's possible with this engine though, so just separate the AIs and have them attack in tandem for double the pressure.

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Besides Dracula, I'm probably forgetting someone, but oh well, lol.

Understandable that you forgot some, since gargoyle bat is a more terrible version of giant bat, medusa from Bloodlines is very meh, and death, well death, and no moves from him which we can steal from.

Also, I've seen several suggestions, again, in the textboard, about putting in, well, Peeping Big from HoD? Would it be difficult to make it actually challenging? (I've thinking the same about Pazuzu)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 07:47:49 AM by Anonymous »


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2016, 03:21:24 PM »
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Besides a short lunge forward, glass breaking, and a firebreath, nothing special. This boss was rejected because design-wise (his attacks are to be fair, unique) he is very similar to Cerberus. Also, with attacks depending on terrain, it would be a bit difficult to organize in survival, same reason why she-wolf from Chronicles isn't added and instead became an alternate skin for Player Werewolf.

Wait, then why doesn't anyone complain about Great Werewolf? He can just suddenly summon posts to attack lol.

Then again, I guess his attacks look much less blatantly obvious than the others.

Anyways, She-wolf can easily be adapted, it could just be her jumping into a wall to pick a rock to throw at you, or pick one from the ground, or both, and maybe she could learn Great Werewolf's ability to summon objects for the clock's hand she picks it up, or it could be a tree or somethin'.

I mean, it would look ridiculous for her to be throwing rocks at you when on you fight her on The Abyss, but who cares? I don't see anyone complaining that when Cyclops or Balore hit the ground on that stage, rocks come out, there's Carrie's item crash on that stage too.

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Well, this kind of boss has had many appearances, so maybe something like this could be added, combining many attacks from its many iterations? (or just take the flesh version, Hydra from DXC) I just remembered someone suggested to use something like skull dragon to be one of Somacula's familiar and it should behave like that skeletal dragon in Chaos's second form in AoS (weren't you the one who did?).

Yeah I suggested that, if Somacula really were to have that it'd need nerfs though, namely no more showing up from below you out of nowhere for a cheap hit, lol.

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This was the boss I saw being suggested a few times, but the reason they rejected this one was because she had only few attacks, I think only three? Scattering poison powder, eggs spawning small moths, and swooping at the player, so maybe those extra attacks or changes could make her quite pressuring.

So what it has only 3 attacks? People need to learn that quantity of moves doesn't mean quality lol.

Anyways, being able to summon the extra moths is already something most bosses don't do, to summon something that is basicaly a familiar, the moth would also be one of the few flight bosses who goes after the player to attack, the other two being Death and Danathus, and the moth would be the fastest one.

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Great reason to add both "Lizzie" and Drac's so-called second form. Will they act a bit like Igor and the Creature, or will only one of them be able to be hit by an attack?

I don't think an Igor/Creature relationship would really work, I think they both should have their own HP, Doltra (Was surprised to find out she has an actual name lol), could just work like a familiar more or less, so her HP wouldn't be visible (Unless there is a way to make it show up alongside Lizzie's without her being considered a separated boss), and I think their battle could play similarly to PoR's final boss, dunno if Doltra should power up Lizzie though, if she did, then Lizzie would either need to have a transformation, so, something original or semi original would need to be created, or some sort of power up, like Dracula's phase 3 in CVF itself, or, Dracula's phase 3 in DXC where he grows wings and gains new attacks.

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Not sure if that's possible with this engine though, so just separate the AIs and have them attack in tandem for double the pressure.

Probably is, Doltra acting basicaly like a familiar, it should have a way to make her stop attacking when Lizzie enters a specific state, which would be their "dual crash".

If that isn't possible then Isaac would lose an interesting part of his fight, since in CoD he controls when the Innocent Devils attack (They're basicaly mortal familiars, and they do attack independently from Isaac, just that specific attacks he has to tell them to attack), but it's probably possible since Isaac and Hector are being considered to be playable.

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Also, I've seen several suggestions, again, in the textboard, about putting in, well, Peeping Big from HoD? Would it be difficult to make it actually challenging? (I've thinking the same about Pazuzu)

Anything can be threatening if you do it well enough.

First of all, for Peeping big, obviously shouldn't be pushed back when hit, a melee boss who can just be pushed back like this? Yeah, terrible idea.

From what I've seen, it has 3 attacks, one where it hits you with it's "tail", the other where it spins the tail, and another where it bounces around, the first one would probably need to be the fastest one, and also make Peeping Big try to get close to the character to hit with it, the spinning one could be used to make it not allow you to get too close, it could also maybe deflect projectiles, the bounding around one, speed that up and it should be good enough.

It could also have attacks from other peeping eyes from the series, like the thunder attacks, I think it was never used for anything besides contact damage, but it could strike the ground and electrify the whole floor, also, are laser eyes too cliche to give to it? lol

Pazuzu biggest problem is how telegraphed he is, but hey, that can be easily solved, he always jumped as one of it's attacks, which may not sound threatening, but then we have Lesser Demon who makes jumping threatening, so yeah.

Pazuzu can allso fly, he could at random jump and start to fly to do other attacks, that way he'd be less telegraphed.

And since Pazuzu in CV3 is so obviously based on Dracula phase 2 from CV1, he could be given that dash in attack CV1 Dracula received in HD.

Plus there's also those tiny devils he summoned in HoD, those can easily pester the player.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2016, 03:49:55 PM »
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Wait, then why doesn't anyone complain about Great Werewolf? He can just suddenly summon posts to attack lol.

Then again, I guess his attacks look much less blatantly obvious than the others.

Anyways, She-wolf can easily be adapted, it could just be her jumping into a wall to pick a rock to throw at you, or pick one from the ground, or both, and maybe she could learn Great Werewolf's ability to summon objects for the clock's hand she picks it up, or it could be a tree or somethin'.

I mean, it would look ridiculous for her to be throwing rocks at you when on you fight her on The Abyss, but who cares? I don't see anyone complaining that when Cyclops or Balore hit the ground on that stage, rocks come out, there's Carrie's item crash on that stage too.

That was exactly the argument they said lol. But to be fair, rocks suddenly cracking out of the ground seems less weird than pulling rocks and a goddamn clock arm out of thin air, or causing glass shards to fall down from nothing. Then there was the suggestion to put the clock tower background together with the boss like the mirror with paranoia and the rock with astarte, though that will mean we will have two stages with clocks, but Dracula's castle is already warped and messed around so why not?

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So what it has only 3 attacks? People need to learn that quantity of moves doesn't mean quality lol.

Anyways, being able to summon the extra moths is already something most bosses don't do, to summon something that is basicaly a familiar, the moth would also be one of the few flight bosses who goes after the player to attack, the other two being Death and Danathus, and the moth would be the fastest one.

Since the boss also has flapping animations, maybe adopt this attack from SotN Darkwing Bat, where the flapping can knock the player to the wall? (Since I don't think that boss would be added into the game without people noticing it's basically a different looking Giant Bat...)

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First of all, for Peeping big, obviously shouldn't be pushed back when hit, a melee boss who can just be pushed back like this? Yeah, terrible idea.

From what I've seen, it has 3 attacks, one where it hits you with it's "tail", the other where it spins the tail, and another where it bounces around, the first one would probably need to be the fastest one, and also make Peeping Big try to get close to the character to hit with it, the spinning one could be used to make it not allow you to get too close, it could also maybe deflect projectiles, the bounding around one, speed that up and it should be good enough.

It could also have attacks from other peeping eyes from the series, like the thunder attacks, I think it was never used for anything besides contact damage, but it could strike the ground and electrify the whole floor, also, are laser eyes too cliche to give to it? lol

Yeah, we already have Dogether that shoots out green lasers (pew pew backdash). Also, since it's basically a giant eyeball, maybe it can do the same thing like the Rebirth boss Giant Eyeball, where it spawns something constantly, just this one continously spawns small peeping eyes for extra pressure?

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Pazuzu biggest problem is how telegraphed he is, but hey, that can be easily solved, he always jumped as one of it's attacks, which may not sound threatening, but then we have Lesser Demon who makes jumping threatening, so yeah.

Pazuzu can allso fly, he could at random jump and start to fly to do other attacks, that way he'd be less telegraphed.

Well, LD's jumps are threatening because afterwards he will either do a very fast swoop and punch, or spit poison, the former of which is very hard to avoid without any invisible and instant dash-ins, and that threat is what Pazuzu doesn't exactly have, but can be in other areas. Also he could launch out several fireballs while flying like how he did it in CV3, as Leviathan.

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And since Pazuzu in CV3 is so obviously based on Dracula phase 2 from CV1, he could be given that dash in attack CV1 Dracula received in HD.

Plus there's also those tiny devils he summoned in HoD, those can easily pester the player.

Those tiny devils need to have decent health to be able to pester the player enough (a bit like Paranoia's buddy) and so that they don't just disappear in one attack from the player, also cannot be backdashed through. Come to think of it, will these tiny devils attack the exact same way as original or different?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2016, 05:44:13 PM »
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That was exactly the argument they said lol. But to be fair, rocks suddenly cracking out of the ground seems less weird than pulling rocks and a goddamn clock arm out of thin air, or causing glass shards to fall down from nothing. Then there was the suggestion to put the clock tower background together with the boss like the mirror with paranoia and the rock with astarte, though that will mean we will have two stages with clocks, but Dracula's castle is already warped and messed around so why not?

Paranoia summons the mirror to fight and Astarte's rock is just an object that can be put somewhere though, putting the clock tower as background for every stage would just look weird when fighting her, specialy considering that the issues with her boss fight can just be solved by her picking rocks from the ground, the different angles she throws them could just be her jumping before throwing, the clock arm could always be replaced with something else.

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Since the boss also has flapping animations, maybe adopt this attack from SotN Darkwing Bat, where the flapping can knock the player to the wall? (Since I don't think that boss would be added into the game without people noticing it's basically a different looking Giant Bat...)

Well, it'd probably need to have less range, both because it'd look weird for this boss to have strength to push you that much with wind, and because the boss moves pretty fast.

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Yeah, we already have Dogether that shoots out green lasers (pew pew backdash). Also, since it's basically a giant eyeball, maybe it can do the same thing like the Rebirth boss Giant Eyeball, where it spawns something constantly, just this one continously spawns small peeping eyes for extra pressure?

Ah yeah, I forgot to suggest for it to summon other peeping eyes.

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Well, LD's jumps are threatening because afterwards he will either do a very fast swoop and punch, or spit poison, the former of which is very hard to avoid without any invisible and instant dash-ins, and that threat is what Pazuzu doesn't exactly have, but can be in other areas. Also he could launch out several fireballs while flying like how he did it in CV3, as Leviathan.

I don't remember Leviathan throwing fireballs while flying in CV3, only when he was on the ground.

And well, it's not just because of the other attacks that Lesser Demon's jumps are threatening, but also because it's hard to react to it, if Lesser Demon's jumps were slower, then it wouldn't be threatening at all, just backdash under him and all of the attacks you mentioned wouldn't be a problem to deal with because of the extra room.

Anyways, Pazuzu doesn't have the tools to pressure you that much true, he does fly while jumping in HoD so his moveset could be separated like this, to give him different moves when on the ground and when flying.

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Those tiny devils need to have decent health to be able to pester the player enough (a bit like Paranoia's buddy) and so that they don't just disappear in one attack from the player, also cannot be backdashed through. Come to think of it, will these tiny devils attack the exact same way as original or different?

Dunno how they act in HoD exactly, but looks different from the Imps from AoS, flying around more and whatnot.

They also shouldn't be buffed that much, keep in mind that in HoD Pazuzu stops attacking when he summons them, in CVF, Serio will probably make Pazuzu summon them and keep attacking, so first Pazuzu needs to be planned carefully before really messing with them, though, I think it should be possible to backdash through them if they can survive more than one hit, so they aren't too pressuring.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2016, 05:02:54 AM »
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Paranoia summons the mirror to fight and Astarte's rock is just an object that can be put somewhere though, putting the clock tower as background for every stage would just look weird when fighting her, specialy considering that the issues with her boss fight can just be solved by her picking rocks from the ground, the different angles she throws them could just be her jumping before throwing, the clock arm could always be replaced with something else.

Maybe she could make a pillar out of the ground? She will need to be sped up a lot though, since her rock throws can just be avoided with a backdash.

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I don't remember Leviathan throwing fireballs while flying in CV3, only when he was on the ground.

Yeah, it's not there in the videos, but when I fought it and attacked from the platform I got knocked out when it launched those in the air.

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Dunno how they act in HoD exactly, but looks different from the Imps from AoS, flying around more and whatnot.

They also shouldn't be buffed that much, keep in mind that in HoD Pazuzu stops attacking when he summons them, in CVF, Serio will probably make Pazuzu summon them and keep attacking, so first Pazuzu needs to be planned carefully before really messing with them, though, I think it should be possible to backdash through them if they can survive more than one hit, so they aren't too pressuring.

They basically just swoop at the player and attack them with their spears, and don't control the player like imps in other metroidvanias, pretty sure that's impossible to do with the engine.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2016, 06:55:14 AM »
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Maybe she could make a pillar out of the ground? She will need to be sped up a lot though, since her rock throws can just be avoided with a backdash.

I don't think she needs to be sped up, she already attacks really fast when throwing rocks, she could mix things up between zoning and attacking from up close range, which she could get close with her fast jumps, her up close attack would definitely need to be faster though.

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Yeah, it's not there in the videos, but when I fought it and attacked from the platform I got knocked out when it launched those in the air.

Well, I played both the American and Japanese versions of CV3, haven't seen him doing it, but Pazuzu having it wouldn't be a problem.

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They basically just swoop at the player and attack them with their spears, and don't control the player like imps in other metroidvanias, pretty sure that's impossible to do with the engine.

Well, no need to make them copy Imps, just the fact they attack is good enough.

By default they could survive two hits I guess, but show up in a more spread way so they aren't killed together and whatnot.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2017, 05:26:28 AM »
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So I noticed that in Stella's section Grant and Charlotte are mentioned in easy because they can curse, but is Albus not included because his curse is more unreliable?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2017, 03:29:58 PM »
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So I noticed that in Stella's section Grant and Charlotte are mentioned in easy because they can curse, but is Albus not included because his curse is more unreliable?

No, I just tend to forget that move exists, lol.

I did a quick test here, the move is really good to hit Stella since she doesn't usualy fly that high and the move is a decent anti air, plus there's also the item crash which he can also use to curse her for a while, he can destroy her just as much as Grant and Charlotte, also added player Death on the mix, since his dark orb is pretty effective against her, just isn't as reliable 'cause of the ammount of MP it wastes.

Edit: By the way, the first post has 71 thousand characters, the limit of characters per post is 100 thousand, the hell am I supposed to do if the limit is reached? Lol

At this point I think it's unlikely to reach the limit, because I don't think there's any more bosses who can be beat without taking hits (Then again, I said that before and was wrong about that lol), though when new bosses are added, it's possible they'll also be bosses you can beat without taking hits, either with everyone or just lucky few, so it's possible to go over the limit eventualy.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:36:31 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2017, 03:42:02 PM »
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No, I just tend to forget that move exists, lol.

I did a quick test here, the move is really good to hit Stella since she doesn't usualy fly that high and the move is a decent anti air, plus there's also the item crash which he can also use to curse her for a while, he can destroy her just as much as Grant and Charlotte, also added player Death on the mix, since his dark orb is pretty effective against her, just isn't as reliable 'cause of the ammount of MP it wastes.

Edit: By the way, the first post has 71 thousand characters, the limit of characters per post is 100 thousand, the hell am I supposed to do if the limit is reached? Lol

At this point I think it's unlikely to reach the limit, because I don't think there's any more bosses who can be beat without taking hits (Then again, I said that before and was wrong about that lol), though when new bosses are added, it's possible they'll also be bosses you can beat without taking hits, either with everyone or just lucky few, so it's possible to go over the limit eventualy.

As I suggested once before, you could start a second thread to continue, but both should have links to each other inserted.


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Offline UBerserker

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2017, 04:02:55 PM »
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Olrox's laser pillars seem to a bit too strong? They like deal double the damage

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2017, 05:27:57 PM »
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Olrox's laser pillars seem to a bit too strong? They like deal double the damage

That's to compensate how "limited" they are now, since they waste his MP.

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2017, 06:42:30 PM »
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That's to compensate how "limited" they are now, since they waste his MP.

Then again, his familiars can do a great job in pushing the player to them if unlucky, and the pillars hurt especially for those weak to magic damage, like Hanz and OAA.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: List of viable bosses to do a Perfect/Awesome.
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2017, 07:32:37 PM »
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Then again, his familiars can do a great job in pushing the player to them if unlucky, and the pillars hurt especially for those weak to magic damage, like Hanz and OAA.

If they push you to the pillars, all you have to do is walk to a safe spot, since familiars can't combo you into the pillars, even if you're hit in the air by them, the character won't get hit by the pillars even if it looks like it should, arguably the only character who should have trouble with this is Death since he's fat, so getting in a safe spot is harder.

Try to avoid moving around too much and you won't have trouble to avoid the pillars, staying near Olrox is the best choice since he pushes you automaticaly when he uses the pillars when you're near him.

 

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