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Author Topic: Tier list  (Read 4272 times)

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Offline Lukmendes

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Tier list
« on: September 20, 2015, 05:35:44 PM »
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I feel like it's about time to put one in here.

Done based on 0.6.20 (mostly based on 0.6.17a, but most characters didn't change much, so they remain the same), will change it based on updates.

The list works like this:

S+ tier: Charlotte and Loretta's tier, they're above everyone else because of their very solid tools, even when in lower HP they can still win fights, both have high damage and are safe, though Loretta is the most damaging and safe one, but Charlotte with higher shot upgrades can heal pretty well, fast MP recovery is pretty good for them too.

S tier: Virtualy no bad matchups against bosses those characters have things like high damage, strong zoning, good deffensive tools and whatnot, if they lack in one area, they overcompensate in another, their worse matchups are generaly not that tough, they can generaly afford to commit more mistakes (Specialy healers).

S- tier: Characters who are overall strong, but are sifnificantly weaker than the S tiers, they have basicaly everything they need.

A tier: Solid characters, but they lack something to make them as strong as the S tiers.

C+ tier: Ronald after being buffed.

Frog Tier: The best strategy you can make, is to pick someone else.

Now for the list itself:

Arcade mode:

S+ tier: Charlotte, Loretta

S tier: Montano, Soma, Stella, Hanz, Alucard, Marias, Chronicles Simon, CV4 Simon, Nathan, Sonia, Axe Armor, Shanoa, Albus, Persephone

S- tier: Yoko, Richters, Carrie, Juste, Duke Nukem, Maxim, Hugh, Julius, 8-bit Simon, Sakuya, Werewolf, Reimu, Grant, Serious Jonathan, Master Skeleton

A tier: Death, Jokenathan, Hammer

C+ Tier: Ronald

Frog tier: Frog

I'll see if I post one for Survival mode later, it's harder to make a tier list for that because I'd have to judge characters with or without double/triple/quadruple shots separatedly, also, I'll judge it based on The Abyss/Abandoned Village, other stages can give a gigantic advantage to specific bosses, even worse against some characters who lack a specific tool, those two stages are the best "Universal" stages available.

Any suggestions on changes are welcome, since I haven't analyzed all characters properly (Like Hugh), and some characters I'm not entirely sure if they should be where I put them (Like Julius or Death).

Character analysis

Reimu

(click to show/hide)

Sakuya

(click to show/hide)

Sonia
(click to show/hide)

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm using Nightmare mode as the difficulty to judge the tier position, the other difficulties are very deceiving about how good some characters are.

Edit 2: To avoid confusions, I made a list to mention what a character needs to be in a certain position in the list.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 07:41:27 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2015, 05:37:17 PM »
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Before I start suggesting things, what actually separates them in categories? Is it damage-wise or versatility?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2015, 05:43:16 PM »
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Before I start suggesting things, what actually separates them in categories? Is it damage-wise or versatility?

Just how well they deal with bosses in general, though having high damage and versality are included in this since there are bosses who are good at hitting you (Orlok for example), so being good at killing those bosses is important.

There's also some more "unique" things, Hanz is S tier because he's a more damaging Richter, and while his HP and deffenses are bad, those two can be solved with HP upgrades, which makes things less dangerous for him, which makes it much easier to kill bosses, Alucard can choose to go upgrading both HP and MP, Soma as well, and with their pretty solid movesets, they're put in S tier as well.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 09:48:53 AM »
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So, having played Master Skeleton for some time, I notice he hasn't changed much since the first time I played with him on Nightmare (about version 6.01 that time), with the only difference his halberd rush ff+A, where you can make him dash or not and the crouching versions were added on his attacks.

Based on my experience he in my opinion fits somewhere around B or A- (possibly A though but I'm also not too sure):

He's great at close range, with decent basic attacks and his ff+A/C doing good damage, and he has bdf+A/C as a fast gap closer and as a semi-reliable corner escape.

His sub-weapons are similar to those of a generic whip user (rib=dagger, bone=axe, bone cross). In fact, since he has a whip, he can do things as a whip-user as well (helps against Dracula's blobs and wolfs, LD's skulls, etc.)

He also has nice anti-air capabilities especially with Alt. Bone, doing nice damage to airborne targets, not to forget his giant bone dealing more hits against air targets.

But the thing is, he's not too special in long ranges. His Rib is pretty much a destructible dagger and while it's Alt. form does more damage, it's arced downwards. His laser can be used in such situations as well, but it takes time to charge for it to be effective and his giant bone doesn't do much on ground targets. It's true though that he has decent running speed to compensate for this, but he'll have difficulties against bosses that have range advantage and can easily punish characters who are mainly close combat. (Cerberus, Stella, etc.)

Another main issue is his movelist. It's filled with mostly physical damaging moves, with laser being the only magical attack and it doesn't make quite a lot for it. (Main reason why I don't really play him a lot in Nightmare).


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 11:49:04 AM »
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I don't really see Master Skeleton being on A tier, that's where characters who are seriously solid characters are, those who have next to no bad matchups against bosses, he doesn't really looks like he belongs there, but I could be wrong (I did think at some point that Yoko and Carrie were weak lol).

Not having many magical attacks is fine, laser works on the matchups where it's supposed to work, real problem is his zooning and how situational his item crash is, he also seems like he lacks an attack which goes through shields, which makes the Medusa matchup hellish.

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 02:32:26 PM »
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would changing his item crash so that the bone hits only once but for much more damage help?

the bouncing bone cross will pass through shields now.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 04:10:24 PM »
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Quote
would changing his item crash so that the bone hits only once but for much more damage help?

It would help in my opinion, because on most ground targets it hits only once or twice if you're lucky, but on flying bosses it hits more.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 05:37:20 PM »
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would changing his item crash so that the bone hits only once but for much more damage help?

Yeah it would, that way he'd have a good way to damage Olrox when he puts the purple faces up (If there's enough range that is, haven't tested), or when he summons the familiars, plus it'd be usable against ground bosses if he can get close enough (Exception to Richter probably, because of Whip Rush)

I think it'd need to do above average damage as well, similarly to why Julius' Grand Cross dos high damage, because of the more limited uses.

Anyway, moved Duke to A tier, 8-way shotgun is too good, and the shotgun has really good range too, f,f attack is great and his item crash is really damaging, his biggest weak point is that he's a bit slow, but he compensates that with the damage and range.

Also moved Maxim to A tier, though he doesn't really have a zooning sub weapon like a dagger, the shurikens do a nice work with proper positioning, and the Kunais are excellent at close range, plus he has an unique damage item crash and his healing is really good if he has enough time to use it (like against Medusa for example), his very fast movement is pretty good too.

Also, with Hammer's ability to throw more incineration grenades, and having a smart bomb which goes forward, he could go up too since theoricaly that can help to solve his problem of not dealing with projectiles very well, I'll do tests later.

Offline Medlin

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 03:05:11 PM »
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would changing his item crash so that the bone hits only once but for much more damage help?
Maybe make 2 item crashes, like for Alucard? Remain this as anti-air one and add strong but 1 hit as the second one.

Offline Zufeng

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 01:44:58 PM »
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S tier: Sakuya, Reimu, Charlotte, Montano, Soma, Stella, Loretta, Hanz, Alucard

A tier: Sonia, Shanoa, Yoko, Nathan, Richters, Carrie, Juste, Axe Armor, CV4 Simon, Serious Jonathan, Duke Nukem, Maxim

A- tier: Hugh, Albus, Julius, Chronicles Simon, 8-bit Simon

B tier: Hammer, Werewolf, Persephone, Death, Jokenathan, Frog

lol tier: Ronald


Uhh you write A tier twice
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Offline VladCT

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 01:52:53 PM »
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A and A- (minus) actually, there's a difference.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2015, 04:58:41 PM »
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Did a small update, I decided to make a B+ tier to put Persephone, Hammer and Werewolf there, since they feel stronger than the other characters, and I added Master Skeleton in B tier, and honestly, he feels like the weakest character in there.

I'll try to think of ways of getting the B and B+ characters buffed to move them to A- tier at least, I think it'd better for the weakest character still be in A- tier at least, it'd be better for everyone to be pretty strong, by doing that, future or current bosses could become strong/stronger since the whole cast would be solid,  no need to make a boss weaker because there are some characters who are too weak to deal with them. That would be important to make bosses like Galamoth and Somacula to be strong but still beatable by the cast.

Of course, the weaker characters can't receive just any buff, one of Death's weak points is that his zoning sucks, buffing his zoning tools like the scythes of the green orbs would help him, but it'd remove his uniqueness of being a character where he's far more effective at up close ranges, so he'd need to receive different buffs, maybe his stop watch could waste less MP for him to be able to create more opportunities to attack? His MP recovery is pretty slow after all, so it wouldn't be abusable.

Hammer is a character who I feel like he has potential to move higher, the recent buff of receiving the alternate version of Smart Bombs is pretty good for him, Persephone could be higher as well, those two are the ones I'm most unsure about leaving them in B+ tier, but I haven't played enough with them to know for sure if they should be higher.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 09:17:57 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 02:57:34 AM »
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Now that 0.6.17 is out, I did a small update, just removed Marias from "Absolute god tier", now they're in S.

Hugh, Hammer, Persephone, Death, Jokenathan, Master Skeleton, Ronald, those characters are probably going up (Master Skeleton definitely is going up, I'm just not sure how much), though I don't know how much stronger they've gotten since I just read their buffs and tested them a bit on practice mode, will do proper testings later.

Edit: Actualy, the list might receive some more changes besides those, with bosses becoming stronger now, some characters might drop, the most obvious one would be Hanz since he could end up having a harder time because of his lower deffenses, 8-bit Simon as well for similar reasons.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2015, 12:14:58 AM »
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I updated the list a bit with the most "obvious" things:

CV4 Simon and Chronicles Simon in S: They have all the good generic Belmont stuff, + laurels, which although isn't nearly as overpowered as it used to be, it's still pretty damn good, their unique advantages, 8-way whipiing and flame whip mode respectively, are also really good, 8-bit Simon isn't near in S tiers because of his jumps, which can make him more vulnerable, so he can't turtle as effectively as the other two, which also makes him the worst healer on the game.

Nathan in S: DSS mode is already pretty good as a power up mode, it healing Nathan when he hits something with the whip only helps, the clone is also pretty good now.

Sonia in S: Similar to the other two with the healing, plus other good shit like her overpowered burning soul item crash, honestly think that should be nerfed since it's basicaly like Hydro storm used to be, in other words, outclasses the other item crashes (She'd still be in S tier regardless).

I could make other changes, but I'm not really sure about them, those are:

Death: Move him up, maybe to A-, that's because his b,d,f wastes significantly less MP now, his up,qcf wasting less MP might make it be worth to be used in specific matchups, and the green orbs receiving damage boots is pretty good, while he's definitely stronger, I'm not sure how much stronger, who knows, he could end up going to A tier.

Ronald: While I don't think he should leave the "lol" tier status, he's stronger now because of the damage upgrades the hamburguer receives.

Jokenathan: Similar reasons as Ronald to move up, with his pies, the damage upgrade is really good.

Anyone with a cross: The cross sub weapon is amazing now, if it weren't for the high ammount of MP it wastes it'd easily make Holy Water useless, everyone with it is significantly stronger (Specialy characters like Juste and Carrie who have faster MP recovery), so they could easily go up.

Hanz might really drop, he's quite a fragile character with his "kill the opponent ASAP" playstyle, bosses becoming stronger the more bosses you fight affects him more than anyone else by far, specialy against bosses like Brauner and Orlok (Death theoricaly would do that as well, but Hanz can kill him very quickly), maybe his magic vulnerability could be toned down (Honestly always thought that 200% was too much, now it's even worse).

Sakuya is a character I'm not sure if she should stay in S tier, for a while I've been thinking that she's around the same level as Shanoa, then again, that might mean that Shanoa is good enough to go up, but I'm not really sure about that, Sakuya compared to Soma, he just seems significantly better since he has a really good move for every situation, Sakuya just feels a bit weaker (But then again, unlike Soma, she barely wastes MP, so she has more/better uses for stop watch, her item crashes are far better than Soma's as well...).

I'm not playing the game as much lately, so it might take a while to test those characters.

I decided to include an explanation for each tier, maybe someday I'll write explanations for each character's moves (Normals, specials, sub weapons), I probably won't though, lol.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:22:42 AM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2015, 01:01:02 PM »
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Updated the list a bit more, Hugh, Julius and Albus went to A tier both because all of them received significant buffs and because I understimated some of their stuff, which made me think they weren't as good as others.

Moved Death to A-, the green orb receiving damage upgrades is neat, and his b,d,f doesn't waste as much MP now, so it can be used enough (The charge time is still pretty slow, which balances how it doesn't waste as much MP as other b,d,f moves), ice/dark orbs receiving damage upgrades now, well, it doesn't help that much since those sub weapons aren't as "abusable" as the green orb or the mini scythes, but it helps on more dangerous matchups like Richter.

Jokenathan to B+ because of the buffs pies get, those help him a lot on matchups where he can turtle more.

I'm feeling tempted to move Werewolf and Persephone to A-, but I still haven't done a proper playthrough with them to be sure if they should be moved there.

I don't really play with Frog, but he has the same b,d,f buff as Death, which probably helps enough, his lower than average damage when zoning can be a problem though, and I'm not really sure on how good he is at destroying projectiles, I'm thinking more about Dracula 2's purple projectiles, but since he can fly, he probably can use a similar strat other flight characters can use (double jump, super jump, fly forward, then go down, then use probably up,qcf attack to destroy the projectiles), but since I don't have much knowledge with him (Only played with him once), I have my doubts about moving him higher, he does seem like he has potential for B+ at least though.

 

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