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Author Topic: Tier list  (Read 4665 times)

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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 11:03:17 AM »
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So, I've been messing around with Master Skeleton for a while, he's definitely the second worst character on the game, slow MP recovery, he's slow, doesn't hit that hard, his b,d,f, and the bone cross are what make him not be completely useless, the glitch with his rib and alt rib just make it worse for him (Though, not as bad as I expected), and it's odd that his item crash hits only a bit harder than Simon's, while not being as "abusable".

I'm not saying he's trash, but he has those noticeable weak points, which is why he's below almost everyone.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, moved 8-bit Simon to A tier, while he can have trouble in some atchups because of his jumps, his damage, laurels and him taking less damage from multi hits moves make up for it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 02:34:12 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2016, 11:16:18 PM »
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Moved Jokenathan to A-, the buffs pies get is better than I expected, and and his qcf attack is pretty awesome, probably the best on the game, pretty good to use in some flight opponents with jump, C, qcf attack, then after he recovers use the pie, his melee game is pretty good because of his lollipop, so he doesn't have trouble to do damage meterless if he can get close enough, only thing that's worse is his matchup against Dracula, curry is ignored by phase 2 Dracula's projectiles, but at least he can use paper airplane and b,d,f though.

I think his f,f attack could waste less MP, I honestly don't see many uses to it, only in situations where I want to hit and backdash, but pies are better at this since they waste less MP, plus his f,f attack isn't that good with the range, maybe it could waste 150 MP, Serious Jonathan's f,f attack should still waste 180 though, it's the best generic whip user f,f attack on the game.

b,d,f could do more damage since in functions basicaly the same as sub weapons like Soma's flea men, but it's inferior in every way.

Also, I noticed that Jonathan's and Werewolf's perfect guard are opposistes, Jonathan's fills his MP bar, Werewolf's wastes it, Werewolf's should fill too since he has more MP problems.

And, about Persephone's and Maxim's sub weapons, it seems odd that the kunai and ground shuriken start to waste more MP the more shot upgrades they receive, it devalues their uses a bit, maybe that could stay with Maxim since his MP recovery is faster, but Persephone can have MP problems once in a while since her MP recovery is worse, sub weapons wasting more MP would only make this worse.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 11:41:48 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2016, 01:53:52 PM »
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So I moved Master Skeleton to B+, I underrated how good his tools are, he's more or less on the same level as Persephone, maybe just a bit worse (Her triple daggers are what made me conclude she's better, Ground Shuriken could be another reason too, however, Master Skeleton has his own advantages over her, so she doesn't outclass him in every way).

Frog, I'll mess around with him more, he generaly has issues doing high damage safely, his qcf+A is his best attack to do damage but it can be risky to use it, he's also a bit of a MP waster, but that can probably be solved by using his normals more and turtling (He's really good at turtling because of how good his movement is, however, bosses like Death or Brauner don't really let you turtle too much without consequences).

I think the top 3 on the game would be: Charlotte > Loretta > Nathan.

Charlotte just basicaly has everything, although a bit slow with her tools, her normals strings are pretty solid, her zoning is strong, raging fire is just excellent up close tool, b,d,f attacks are really good invincible dash ins, specialy because she can choose to use between magic or physical, and control if she wants to go up or down with it, and she can heal, which although it's useless early on, her healing becomes really good at triple/quadruple shot.

Loretta is a damaging zoning monster, f,f attack, Icicle spike, and her up,qcf attack, which is the best projectile charge move because of it's damage and the ammount of I-frames it gives to her, her normal is really good, having flight with backdash is always a good thing, and her item crash and qcf attack  are really good against up close big bosses.

Nathan, he has all the generic whip user stuff minus flame whip, which is really good, his f,f attack only wastes 50 MP, his DSS mode can heal him when he hits the opponent with a whip, his DSS clone gives him a really good way to damage up close enemies, his non DSS crash does really high damage, and he throws sub weapons quite fast.

It's honestly debatable which one of those characters is the best one, they're really close to each other, I put Charlotte as the first one because her only weak point is that she's a bit slow, and some of her moves can have a kind of long recovery, but on the second one, if she can't use one tool, she can always use another, Loretta in very close second because her tools aren't as strong up close, but she generaly hits like a truck, Nathan is really good at up close range because of his clone, but the ammount of MP he'll have to waste to use any special move is what makes him weaker than them for me, plus his zoning isn't as strong, which is a big deal, other characters who possibly could take the spot for top 3 are Soma, Axe Armor, Chronicles Simon (And maybe CV4 Simon too, but I feel like Chronicles Simon's flame whip mode is what makes him better, while CV4 Simon's biggest advantage he has over Chronicles Simon is the 8-way whipping, but they both has axes which are just excellent anti airs), Marias (Probably with SotN Maria as the best one), and maybe Stella, Montano and Sonia.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2016, 05:36:13 PM »
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So, I've been messing around with Frog lately, thinking he could be kind of a hidden gem like Master Skeleton, and, he isn't, he does have solid enough damage and whatnot, but he needs to take bigger risks than the other characters, his zoning is crap, he's kind of a big MP waster, his anti airs suck, and in some cases he needs his item crash to do damage. He has his own advantages, which is what makes him not be worthless, but, he just isn't that strong, still viable, but at the moment, shouldn't be higher than B.

That aside, I moved Werewolf to A-, his biggest weak point are shitty anti airs and bad MP recovery, but, he can turtle well enough, and his melee game is really good, his qcf attack is crap though, only special input move you should use with him is f,f attack, and up,qcf attack for flight enemies, his b,d,f has some uses too, but wastes too much MP so it's more limited.

Guess this tier list is done for now, but maybe there's some strategy I missed with a specific character, which can make them go up. Updates may buff/nerf characters or bosses too, so that can change some things.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 01:09:00 AM »
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Made some changes for the list, removed Sakuya from S tier, she just doesn't feel as strong as the other characters in there, moved Shanoa and Albus up, since both of them have Igniz which becomes quite overpowered with upgrades, and they don't really have many noticeable matchups you can call bad.

Also, I decided to turn the A tier into S-, ever since the beginning the A tier characters were really close to S tier ones, while B tiers are pretty "far" from A, and just one small change/new strategy could easily move a character from the old A to S, while it may take more for a character in B to move too much, so, since the difference between A and S isn't that big, I decided to turn the A tier into S-, and A- into A, B and C tiers stay the same.

Also moved Persephone to A (Which is the equivalent to the old A-), she honestly starts out not really strong, but with shot upgrades she becomes pretty damaging, specialy when zoning with Triple Daggers (She easily destroys Albus with triple shot), and it doesn't waste much MP too, she's similar to Werewolf in the sense that she becomes stronger with MP upgrades instead of HP upgrades because it allows her to use more her good moves (While Tripple Dagger is really strong, she still needs more MP for other tools like Shurikens and the Kunais, also her f,f attack).

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2016, 02:05:03 PM »
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So, I've been thinking, I think I should write explanations about each character's moves, but, you guys decide which character I should write about, I'll write one by one, some characters may take longer to write about though, generaly because I'm less experienced with said character.

Offline VladCT

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2016, 02:34:42 PM »
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I guess you should try starting from the top tier ones and work your way down.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2016, 02:52:16 PM »
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I guess you should try starting from the top tier ones and work your way down.

Only if the characters chosen just happen to be from top to bottom.

I think it's more interesting for someone else to pick a character they want to know about and then I write about said character, if I had to choose I would probably write nothing anyway, lol.

Oh and, anyone can help with info about movesets too, sometimes I neglect specific moves, and that could put a character lower than they should.

Offline VladCT

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2016, 03:22:56 PM »
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I see.

Okay then, let's try Sonia first. I'd like to know what you think about a character I had a hand in designing.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2016, 12:09:39 AM »
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I see.

Okay then, let's try Sonia first. I'd like to know what you think about a character I had a hand in designing.

Done.

While messing around with her I found a glitch, her up,qcf attack doesn't go through shields at bigger distances, and the website says she has the bible sub weapon, and she doesn't.

For now the sub weapons are in the same section as the character, I'll change that later once enough info is gathered, mention the same sub weapons in a different section, but write down the differences for each in damage and how fast the character throws it, also extra info like height and whatever else that's important.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2016, 03:39:48 AM »
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I would also like to see what you think about the touhouvania cast. Might just find out I've been playing either wrong.


(And no, I'm not from 4chan! Or from the textboard)

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2016, 04:01:27 AM »
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I would also like to see what you think about the touhouvania cast. Might just find out I've been playing either wrong.

One character at a time man, lol.

Offline VladCT

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2016, 04:07:15 AM »
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Just read up your analysis on Sonia, how do you think her Fire Soul (up+qcf) should be buffed, higher damage or faster charge (Serio also forgot to mention that the charge can be held for bigger range)?

Oh, and by the way you got a little mix-up there, the Crash is Magic Soul, Saint Soul's the projectile.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2016, 08:37:46 AM »
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Quote
One character at a time man, lol.

Oh sorry lol. How about Reimu first?


(And no, I'm not from 4chan! Or from the textboard)

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Tier list
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2016, 09:32:19 PM »
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Just read up your analysis on Sonia, how do you think her Fire Soul (up+qcf) should be buffed, higher damage or faster charge (Serio also forgot to mention that the charge can be held for bigger range)?

Well, invincible chargeable moves are as good as they generaly are because they put the charactet far from the boss, so it's high damaging and safe, other chargeable moves make you stay close to the boss, or the boss gets close while you use it, only way I see this becoming good, and all other chargeable moves which aren't invincible dash ins, is to have more I-frames, that way the character can get away from the boss safely after the move is done, the ammount of MP they waste could be toned down too, because most times the damage they do isn't really high to compensate all of that MP being wasted, though, Sonia's up,qcf already has good enough damage, but it should do the same damage at any range, and have extra I-frames.

Quote
Oh, and by the way you got a little mix-up there, the Crash is Magic Soul, Saint Soul's the projectile.

Thanks, corrected.

Oh sorry lol. How about Reimu first?

Done.

Also I decided to add more details on the last part of each character, to explain more of the character's pros and cons, both Sonia and Reimu have that, will also put it for future characters.

Edit: Added a section for Sakuya.