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Offline FinnishFlame

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New Boss Moveset Discussion
« on: February 08, 2016, 06:10:50 PM »
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I'm going to start this off with my current moveset for Dmitrii:

Physical:
Disc Armor/Great Axe Armor/Axe Armor
Death (DoS)
Dead Crusader/Tanjelly

Ice:
Frozen Shade
Yoko's Icicle
Grando

Fire:
Flame Demon/Aguni/Hellfire
Buer

Magic:
Beam Skeleton (AoS)/Witch (DoS)/Demon Lord (AoS)
Nemesis (AoS)
Killer Mantle (AoS)?

Plant:
Une
Alura Une
Skeleton Farmer

Holy/Light:
Erinys
Gergoth/Legion (AoS)

Dark:
Malachi
Devil (DoS)/Arc Demon (DoS)
Succubus (AoS)

Electric:
Rycuda
Bugbear

Included with these souls is the resistance to that particular trait, to avoid spamming.
I didn't add water because Merman soul is incredibly weak, and no one really uses it anyway. This list is still partial, though.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New boss moveset suggestion thread
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 06:13:14 PM »
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Ah, damn it, and I created another thread, lol.

I'll just delete that one and continue the discussion here to avoid confusion.

I'm not really sure time based would be the best idea, as.one.could just attack him with a relatively weak element and then spam him with stronger attacks...

Well, that's why all elements he could copy should be strong in one way or another, to avoid this kind of situation, throw a shitty fire attack at him, then he'll just use one of his own strong fire attacks for example, you should just try to use the element which is best for you, or your character, to avoid (Assuming the character has that many options).

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For respecting the the pace of the match, he could force the player to keep away from him, using different strategies per element.

Trying to force the character to stay away from him is what nearly every boss does already, and the game's cast has quite strong zoning and movement, so that wouldn't be effective, a zoning style would be more fitting for him (Since he has no up close attacks, I think), but he'd need to have ways to avoid your zoning, make you respect his options, quick attacks zoning and strong movement (Which could be the teleport we've been talking about) would be the anti zoning tools.

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Are we free to PM serio about this, ask about mugen's capability for copying elements?

Don't think that'd be a problem, but you can just wait for him to reply here.

Edit: For the moveset you suggested, I think Dmitrii should only copy the monster's attacks, not players.

Don't think Dmitrii should have Aguni's soul, that's what Dario already uses.

AoS Succubus would heal him when he hits something, that would be weird for him to have lol.

Killer Mantle would be easily avoidable, and you could actualy use it in your favor (If you're nearly dying and have full MP, just force him to use it lol).

Also, the thing about Dmitrii is that he'll have to make the player respect him in some way, maybe he could have better recovey on his attacks for that, because Dario at least has some ways to make you respect him.

He also shouldn't be too strong, Richter and Albus need to maintain their thrones (Though Albus is nowadays significantly weaker than Richter, but that's more because Richter gets nice buffs once in a while).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 06:22:49 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 06:20:30 PM »
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I thought I was the one that created an irrelevant thread, lol. So what exactly would be his default moveset? It would have to be strong enough so that a player can't kill him with just spamming normals.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 06:28:30 PM »
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I thought I was the one that created an irrelevant thread, lol. So what exactly would be his default moveset? It would have to be strong enough so that a player can't kill him with just spamming normals.

He could have the Physical, Magic and Plant (Which would probably deal physical damage, but eh, let him have some physical attacks) movesets by default, and maybe start the fight with Darkness (Since it's the rarest element in the game, plus it's not far fetched for him to use it), but Darkness could be replaced by others if you hit him with another element.

One thing to keep in mind is that the holy attacks he has needs to be pretty strong, either damaging or hard to avoid, or both, because all characters with holy attacks have good resistance to it.

The different elements would also need to have different uses in some way or another, to avoid the "This element is a shittier version of that element, so I'll force him to use it" kind of situations (But then again, not everyone would be able to do that, so even if it happened, it wouldn't be that bad), so, one element could have overall different uses from the other.

Edit: By the way, I think this should be his fire attack:

(click to show/hide)

He uses that fireball by default on that game, could have a speed similar to Loretta's f,f attack and have lower hitbox so characters can't crouch under (Or, just not most of them) to avoid a ridiculous situation like the one in the video, lol.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 06:35:19 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 06:44:29 PM »
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Would this replace Flame Demon, or just add to the moveset? Because in terms of appearance, Flame Demon looks a bit better.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 06:58:38 PM »
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Would this replace Flame Demon, or just add to the moveset? Because in terms of appearance, Flame Demon looks a bit better.

Doesn't have to be that fireball in particular, could be one which looks better, Flame Demon could work too, but it doesn't really move fast...

I think one attack per element should be fine, which means he'd have always at most 4 attacks, 3 which can't be changed.

Disc Armor would be good to make the player not get too close for too long.

Alura Une, he could just copy her own attack with the vines comming out of the ground, maybe they could even grab the character for a while if the character is hit.

Don't think should have Erinys, it works the same way as Disc Armor, plus, making him have it would made it easier to zone him out.

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 07:11:20 PM »
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I'm not really sure if this is possible with mugen, but his weapon could change...he doesn't really use physical attacks in DoS unless you get extremely close to him though.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 07:26:45 PM »
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I'm not really sure if this is possible with mugen, but his weapon could change...he doesn't really use physical attacks in DoS unless you get extremely close to him though.

Really? I haven't played DoS, and I've never seen him using it on those videos.

If you mean him using attacks between Disc Armor and the normal, it'd be probably similar to how boss Richter can end up using a normal and the cross, maybe there's a way to make him use the normal and combo it into Disc Armor soul if you're really close though.

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 08:26:59 PM »
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Yeah, I found that out when messing around with Dmitrii with Julius and forcing him into using Grand Cross. Apparently if you get extremely close to him, so that you're almost overlapping him, he'll draw out a dagger and slash at the player.

Which shows, as a result, that apparently Dmitrii can perfectly excecute Grand Cross without any charge. Now that I think of it, it works well as an anti-air.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 08:43:45 PM »
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Yeah, I found that out when messing around with Dmitrii with Julius and forcing him into using Grand Cross. Apparently if you get extremely close to him, so that you're almost overlapping him, he'll draw out a dagger and slash at the player.

That would be pointless since he'll have contact damage, lol.

Quote
Which shows, as a result, that apparently Dmitrii can perfectly excecute Grand Cross without any charge. Now that I think of it, it works well as an anti-air.

Does he move around with it activated? Also, it'd be weird for him to have Grand Cross, since it's imply he fought Julius, maybe he could have another attack as the anti air.

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 08:46:44 PM »
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He actually moves around.while it's activated. Its the same with Alura Une. However, some attacks it's impossible to get him to copy (Gergoth, any transformation)
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2016, 09:02:52 PM »
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He actually moves around.while it's activated. Its the same with Alura Une. However, some attacks it's impossible to get him to copy (Gergoth, any transformation)

That's cool, guess Alura Une could be the Plant attack he summons, maybe, instead of it disapearing after a while, it could have it's own HP, and you'd have to destroy it to get rid of it.

It could also waste Dmitrii's MP, so he can't just spam it whenever he feels like it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 10:06:00 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline FinnishFlame

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 09:58:08 PM »
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Assuming Dmitrii has 40 seconds to remain in one element, should the Alura Une's health be close to about 1000? I'm not sure, but it should be hard but possible to kill it, as it should be able to last 40 seconds. I guess if one is really desperate they can spam heavy attacks on it to be able to attack Dmitrii directly.

When Plant mode is activated, should Dmitrii regain health for whatever damage he does? Because incidentally, he's a plant.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 10:16:32 PM »
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Assuming Dmitrii has 40 seconds to remain in one element, should the Alura Une's health be close to about 1000? I'm not sure, but it should be hard but possible to kill it, as it should be able to last 40 seconds. I guess if one is really desperate they can spam heavy attacks on it to be able to attack Dmitrii directly.

1000 HP for a familiar is too fucking much, lol.

Considering that Dmitrii could end up getting in the way for attacks aimed at her, and how she could potentialy put some good pressure, she'd need to have way less, maybe around 200, or 300 at most if she's supposed to be a big nuisance, but some characters could have a lot of trouble to destroy her.

If she were to have more HP than that, then maybe she shouldn't do contact damage, that way she'd be a nuisance, but wouldn't get in the way by being a big damaging hitbox convering a siginificant portion of the stage.

Allura Une would be unrelated to the elements, she'd be just one of his default moves, it should waste MP to avoid giving him too much pressure.

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When Plant mode is activated, should Dmitrii regain health for whatever damage he does? Because incidentally, he's a plant.

What?

Also, I think that even if Dmitrii gets resistance to an element, it shouldn't be too much, because Loretta is on this game, and all of her attacks do ice damage (Then again, she can hit pretty hard, so maybe it wouldn't be that bad...)

Anyway, my ideas for what his element attacks could be:

For the thunder attack, maybe it could be Rycuda's soul, making it a instant full screen attack, which you can crouch under.

Darkness should just be Malachi since it's what he starts the fight with.

Ice could be Frozen Shade's attack, could work like Loretta's Icycle Spike.

Holy, it could be AoS Legion's attack, and give it gull screen range with some start up, to make the player have to jump over it.

Dunno about magic, maybe it could be the witch's shield to protect him.

With all of this, since he's just a tier 3 boss, he shouldn't hit that hard, and with this many projectile options, and his backdash to avoid taking damage, he shouldn't move too fast.

Even if he can't copy elements like we're planning, he'd be good enough with Physical, Plant and Darkness suggestions, and maybe whatever we Magic ends up being used could help too.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 10:24:15 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Medlin

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2016, 10:33:06 PM »
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40 seconds to keep element might be much since battles are pretty fast (it's fighting after all). Also it should depend on difficulty. Maybe something like (10 + 5 * difficulty) seconds?

 

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