October 19, 2017, 07:55:39 PM

Author Topic: New Boss Moveset Discussion  (Read 7437 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #135 on: January 24, 2017, 03:11:36 AM »
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I was thinking of Skeleton Waiter or the sorts, but again, if they can't attack, just use bats.

Literal servants lol. What kind of attacks do those do besides curry and running again? Though they could be made to run towards the player, forcing contact damage.

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Don't think he'd need a vampire bite, neither Joachim or Walter or early Dracula had it, healing when he hits could be fitting since AoS' Succubus soul can do that.

According to that soul, the healing is fixed to +5, so either he attacks a lot or the healing isn't fixed, since 5 out of let's say 1500+ and then also survival mode, not much of an effect.

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If that's not an option we can try to find sound-alikes, since Japan loves to use generic voices, like, for Magnus, I'm pretty sure a voice like Isaac's would be fitting for him, basicaly the voice of a good looking evil jerk, like, maybe Street Fighter's Vega?

For Magnus, a character voice like that shouldn't be a problem, Zephyr's voice uses Dio's voice here, since his (Zephyr's) design has resemblance to that, even Ronald's voice is from advertisements actually. I could see Lyudmil's voice to sound either calm or possibly vengeful?


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #136 on: January 24, 2017, 02:03:14 PM »
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Literal servants lol. What kind of attacks do those do besides curry and running again? Though they could be made to run towards the player, forcing contact damage.

Dunno, didn't really think about what they'd do, just made a random suggestion, but running at the player's direction sounds good.

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According to that soul, the healing is fixed to +5, so either he attacks a lot or the healing isn't fixed, since 5 out of let's say 1500+ and then also survival mode, not much of an effect.

We don't really have to follow exactly what the games do though, not even the games themselves are that consistent, fact that Succubus soul went from a yellow soul to a red soul is more than enough evidence lol.

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For Magnus, a character voice like that shouldn't be a problem, Zephyr's voice uses Dio's voice here, since his (Zephyr's) design has resemblance to that, even Ronald's voice is from advertisements actually. I could see Lyudmil's voice to sound either calm or possibly vengeful?

Actualy, I checked out the guy who voices Magnus, it's Junichi Suwabe, and, by pure chance, he voices Vega in SFIV, he uses the same voice for both (Vega's sound less evil when speaking though, but we only really need grunting voice clips).

Richter also says that "This guy has the upper hand in terms of speed", talking about Lyudmil, so he could have fast movement, Lyudmil also summoned a lot of bats which overwhelmed Richter, so those could be his gimmicks.

The potion Magnus created also became a mist which enveloped Maria, so it could be adapted to be a tracking mist, could be activated for a while and then disapear.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #137 on: January 24, 2017, 02:42:31 PM »
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Actualy, I checked out the guy who voices Magnus, it's Junichi Suwabe, and, by pure chance, he voices Vega in SFIV, he uses the same voice for both (Vega's sound less evil when speaking though, but we only really need grunting voice clips).

Yeah, how he speaks in SFIV is more the arrogant kind, but some quotes from that game might seem fitting to Magnus (in a way, at least to me), like "Beautiful Death" as his win quote, "(chuckling)" or "too late, you're mine now" as his reaction to the player caught by his illusion, and "Bleed for me" when he does a certain claw attack or something.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #138 on: January 24, 2017, 05:57:07 PM »
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Yeah, how he speaks in SFIV is more the arrogant kind, but some quotes from that game might seem fitting to Magnus (in a way, at least to me), like "Beautiful Death" as his win quote, "(chuckling)" or "too late, you're mine now" as his reaction to the player caught by his illusion, and "Bleed for me" when he does a certain claw attack or something.

Yeah, those could work.

We'd also need to have a voice for Lyudmil, can't think of anything for him though.

Magnus seems like he'd be decent as a boss, throwing the potion to create the mist to have a tracking hitbox after you, forcing the player to turn around with the illusions, and being an up close boss, those could work well.

If he were to receive clones too, I'd suggest to make them a type which copies movements with delay, like, he does an invincible dash in and about a second later the clone copies him, that way he'd leave more hitboxes around and could be harder to hit him.

Lyudmil, with him having a barrier around him being the bats and using more movement, he sounds pretty similar to Joachim, and if Joachim is to become a boss too, then he'd need to use some of his player moves too instead of just using the moves of the boss battle, but still might need more to separate both.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 02:37:26 PM »
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Lyudmil, with him having a barrier around him being the bats and using more movement, he sounds pretty similar to Joachim, and if Joachim is to become a boss too, then he'd need to use some of his player moves too instead of just using the moves of the boss battle, but still might need more to separate both.

As far as I've seen in LoI playthroughs, Joachim seems to have that barrier around him for almost the entire boss battle, depending on the orbs being destroyed. Perhaps for Lyudmil he doesn't start with a barrier, and just does the summoning, basic attacks, attacking with bats in formations like OoE's werebats or CotM's dracula but they need to be more threatening (seriously you can avoid the yellow bats by crouching in one place). When he has full MP he makes a barrier out of bats, and it has to be thick enough so even whip users can't attack him without being damaged. And then randomly depending on AI he releases the wave in OoE's bat wave formation. Note that while he has the barrier active he shouldn't regenerate MP if that's possible, but he should keep summoning servants, while attacking close to the player to force contact damage from the barrier.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #140 on: January 25, 2017, 03:40:29 PM »
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As far as I've seen in LoI playthroughs, Joachim seems to have that barrier around him for almost the entire boss battle, depending on the orbs being destroyed. Perhaps for Lyudmil he doesn't start with a barrier, and just does the summoning, basic attacks, attacking with bats in formations like OoE's werebats or CotM's dracula but they need to be more threatening (seriously you can avoid the yellow bats by crouching in one place). When he has full MP he makes a barrier out of bats, and it has to be thick enough so even whip users can't attack him without being damaged. And then randomly depending on AI he releases the wave in OoE's bat wave formation. Note that while he has the barrier active he shouldn't regenerate MP if that's possible, but he should keep summoning servants, while attacking close to the player to force contact damage from the barrier.

Don't think Joachim's barrier would be adapted on the same way, the way I see it, it'd either be destroyed after a few hits or be there permanently but you'd still be able to damage him, second one wouldn't really work well because it'd protect him from destroyable projectiles forever, that's going too far.

Then again, maybe the statues could be in any stage when you fight Joachim, that way the barrier would be able to be destroyed on the original way.

Anyways, back to Lyudmil, maybe when the bats are surrounding him they could work like Alucard's bat familiar at max level, be able to shoot fireballs and whatnot, just so it isn't a complete copy of Dracula's bat barrier, and give him other offensive options.

So throwing bats like OoE or CotM's yellow bats and maybe bat familiar, what about his movement? If he has zoning tools I don't think he should focus too much on getting close, maybe a bit like Albus? He never really tries to get too close to the player, he basicaly gets close enough to be able to use his sub weapons, and has an instant counter if someone gets too close, that being the slide, should Lyudmil have something like that too when he doesn't have the barrier and isn't on recovery? It could be an instant decent ranged grab, or he could teleport away, though that last one is already planned to be given to Celia, but I don't think that would be too problematic.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #141 on: January 25, 2017, 04:02:31 PM »
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Don't think Joachim's barrier would be adapted on the same way, the way I see it, it'd either be destroyed after a few hits or be there permanently but you'd still be able to damage him, second one wouldn't really work well because it'd protect him from destroyable projectiles forever, that's going too far.

Then again, maybe the statues could be in any stage when you fight Joachim, that way the barrier would be able to be destroyed on the original way.

I would see Serio's thought to this first, whether this can be implemented or not, because I read somewhere that adding set destructible props only for certain bosses would cause problems or something. But seeing some MUGEN games out there, which implement this for stages, that shouldn't be a problem.

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So throwing bats like OoE or CotM's yellow bats and maybe bat familiar, what about his movement? If he has zoning tools I don't think he should focus too much on getting close, maybe a bit like Albus? He never really tries to get too close to the player, he basicaly gets close enough to be able to use his sub weapons, and has an instant counter if someone gets too close, that being the slide, should Lyudmil have something like that too when he doesn't have the barrier and isn't on recovery? It could be an instant decent ranged grab, or he could teleport away, though that last one is already planned to be given to Celia, but I don't think that would be too problematic.

Or maybe he goes close (and should be fast to be threatening) and throws bats like how the player can release a wave of bats when using that glyph which changes Shanoa to a werebat, and then does OoE's Drac's bat wave and/or CotM's yellow bats when he has the barrier up. He could end up a mostly close ranged boss when his MP isn't full, and then goes far ranged when he has the bat barrier up, but if the player tries to go too close, he could do the same as Albus and try to counter that, while making sure the player gets hit by the bat shield (then again, his keep away barrier would be pretty useless against subweapons like Montano's beam, golden daggers, and many spells)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #142 on: January 25, 2017, 04:31:50 PM »
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I would see Serio's thought to this first, whether this can be implemented or not, because I read somewhere that adding set destructible props only for certain bosses would cause problems or something. But seeing some MUGEN games out there, which implement this for stages, that shouldn't be a problem.

If it can't be impremented, then just make his barrier be destroyed by hitting it.

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Or maybe he goes close (and should be fast to be threatening) and throws bats like how the player can release a wave of bats when using that glyph which changes Shanoa to a werebat, and then does OoE's Drac's bat wave and/or CotM's yellow bats when he has the barrier up. He could end up a mostly close ranged boss when his MP isn't full, and then goes far ranged when he has the bat barrier up, but if the player tries to go too close, he could do the same as Albus and try to counter that, while making sure the player gets hit by the bat shield

So up close without the barrier and zoning/get away with it? Sounds good.

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(then again, his keep away barrier would be pretty useless against subweapons like Montano's beam, golden daggers, and many spells)

That's inevitable, some bosses just end up being obliterated against specific characters, Dracula's bat barrier is redundant to anyone who has a whip, and when the bats could take more damage, it was redundant to anyone who had double shot and axe, Medusa's medusa heads attack is pretty dangerous against some characters, but both Hammer and Persephone like when she uses it, Hammer to be able to damage her with the up,qcf attack, Persephone by using her up,qcf attack to absorb them and get MP back, and in her case, it makes the matchup almost impossible to lose, and we have Death, who gets destroyed by anyone with an axe, and gets butt fucked against Axe Armor because of double axes and very high resistance to physical attacks.

Offline Anonymous

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #143 on: January 25, 2017, 04:39:20 PM »
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That's inevitable, some bosses just end up being obliterated against specific characters, Dracula's bat barrier is redundant to anyone who has a whip, and when the bats could take more damage, it was redundant to anyone who had double shot and axe, Medusa's medusa heads attack is pretty dangerous against some characters, but both Hammer and Persephone like when she uses it, Hammer to be able to damage her with the up,qcf attack, Persephone by using her up,qcf attack to absorb them and get MP back, and in her case, it makes the matchup almost impossible to lose, and we have Death, who gets destroyed by anyone with an axe, and gets butt fucked against Axe Armor because of double axes and very high resistance to physical attacks.

And not to forget Dario that gets shot down by anyone with excellent zoning capability, and having double shot should they have had one perfect and only excellents, or directly 2 perfects.


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: New Boss Moveset Discussion
« Reply #144 on: January 25, 2017, 05:07:01 PM »
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And not to forget Dario that gets shot down by anyone with excellent zoning capability, and having double shot should they have had one perfect and only excellents, or directly 2 perfects.

Dario is a special case, it's more accurate to say he gets countered by the game itself, him and Astarte, both of them were not adapted properly and don't really have anything to make you respect them, the hardest matchup against Astarte was Yoko, back when she didn't have f,f attack and all she could use was her shitty normal, and the matchup wasn't even hard, just boring lol.

Astarte is more or less simple to solve, her biggest weakness is the existance of the jump curse attack, hell, if you took that out she'd be better, that's how much the move makes her worse, but it's one of her original attacks and should be kept, but it desperatedly needs buffs and be used less, it's because of that move her hurricane attack can't do much, even though it has potential to be an excellent keep away tool.

Dario, I don't know, his moveset is just weak, most threatening thing he ever had was when he could use the fire dragon + fire pillars, and even that was a minor nuisance, he didn't do it often and all it did was make the matchup not be reliable to get a Perfect/Awesome.

Maybe to focus more on how this Dario has better fire control than before (And to make him not be a barebones version of Player Dario), he could be able to make the fire wave from a distance, start at the edge of the screen and get closer to him, that way at least staying too far from him would have some sort of danger, though I think he shouldn't be able to use it if he uses the fire dragon, just to keep the Perfect/Awesome intact, unless the dragon moved faster and disapeared faster as a consequence, that way that move could be more threatening too, though, that's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure he could be improved further.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 10:00:55 PM by Lukmendes »

 

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