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Author Topic: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves  (Read 1597 times)

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Offline Lukmendes

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Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« on: February 19, 2016, 02:09:12 PM »
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So, with the ammount of characters the game has, some moves end up inevitably working the same-ish way despite looking different (Like a generic invincible dash-in), sometimes they do have something which makes them different, and the characters themselves may have other tools which separate them from the other character, but, there's still the risk of putting a character with a moveset too similar to someone else's (If not done properly, that could easily happen with Grant), the idea of this thread is to simply suggest a move which is different from the moves the game has at the moment.

Rapidus Dio/Speed Up/Black Panther soul: What this move offers, besides destroying projectiles easily, is the air movement, when you jump, the character move slower, even if you where running before jumping, there's also how it can make you run with a single button press instead of two, could be a Y button.

Leon's cross: I don't remember which combination it is (Might be cross + blue orb), but Leon could summon a gigantic cross which does damage for a while and stays in front of him, good to damage alongside his whip combos, also to destroy projectiles.

Svarog statue: Where Leon steps, he leaves a damaging trail.

Crystal sub weapon: What Leon uses. one of the uses it has is to leave a hitbox in an area which does damage when something gets close.

Air to ground dash: Used by Dracul, pretty straight forward, it's an air dash which makes him go down, though, it doesn't make him automaticaly reach the ground, he travels a fixed distance, so he may use it and still be in the air.

Stomp: Used by LoS characters, the character is in the air and goes down very quickly, similar idea to a divekick, only faster, and does damage only in the ground.

Supply drop: I saw that in MGSV, dunno if other games used it, anyway, what it does is someone else drops a supply for the character to pick, this could be adapted to either heal the character or make them recover MP, could be a non offensive item crash with those functions, an example of this would be making Birdie drop food for Ronald to pick (Though his item crash is planned to be something else), or a supply drop for Hammer (Which he could use since his MP recovery isn't really that good).

Air raid: From Devil May Cry, what it did was make Dante fly and throw projectiles which tracked the opponent's position, he couldn't do his other usual attack, only this one and Vortex (an invincible dash in), a similar move in Castlevania is one of fake Sypha's attacks from SotN, where she throws an ice attack to hit whoever is on the ground.

Speed buff: Similar idea to Black Panther, only it's worse for movement, but better for the offensive since it'd also make the character attack faster.

Exploding M. Circle: Used by Hector, it allows him to be completely ivulnerable to everything and charge an explosion during it, Isaac has a similar move, however, he sends the Innocent Devil to do it, he doesn't enter the circle, it tracks the opponent.

Innocent Devils in general are also this, since they work differently from familiars, specialy the battle time who doesn't fly.

Big area of effect anti air normal: Used by Reinhardt and MoF Belmonts, exactçy what it says, the use would be against flight bosses who move around too much.

Spirit of Belnades: Used by Simon in MoF, it blocks whatever attack is thrown at him, but it wastes his MP at every hit, so it's worse at blocking multiple hits attacks, Dracul has a similar move with Void Shield, however that one wastes all of his MP at once, and is only activated for a certain ammount of time.

Nitesco/Crissaegrim: Same idea, multi hits normals which you can move around while using, to balance them out, they'd either need to do less damage or just waste MP when used.

That's all I can think of now, from what I hear Aeon has chargeable moves, and they change priority the longer your charge instead of just doing more damage, but I don't know exactly how it changes, so I didn't list it, there's also Kid Dracula's 4-way projectile, but I'm not sure if that should be listed... Mostly because Duke Nukem's 8-way shotgun does basicaly the same, only with less range, but but that doesn't really matter with the upwards or downwards versions.

In general I don't know much about games like Judgement, Kid Dracula, Haunted Castle, Order of Shadows and Legacy of Darkness (More specificaly how the level 3 upgrades affect the sub weapons, I only remember the axe's), so if anyone knows any "Unique" moves from those games, please post it, and I think the idea of a move from an unrelated game would help too (I listed something from MGSV after all lol).

Edit: Ah, forgot to mention:

Perfect Guard: Hector's/Trevor's/Isaac's would probably end up working the same way as Jonathan's and Werewolf's, but, Leon's is different, it makes him be pushed back a big distance, which he can backdash cancel out of, he can do that with anything, he also gets I-frames during that pushback, which is pretty good, it'd need to be adapted to waste MP though, otherwise it'd be too good. LoS Belmonts is also pretty different because it only works with physical attacks, and there's the Perfect Guard combo, which, I think for it to be adapted properly, the combo should make the enemy be "paralysed" like a stop watch, and each hit should waste significant ammount of MP.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 02:29:36 PM by Lukmendes »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2016, 04:58:35 PM »
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Just a question, would these ideas be used to fill up the move list of characters missing them or to plan the move list of future characters?

Quote
Crystal sub weapon: What Leon uses. one of the uses it has is to leave a hitbox in an area which does damage when something gets close.

Wouldn't that be a little like holy water with a larger area (vertically)?

Also, about Leon's version of perfect guard, in some walkthroughs I noticed in some cases, even if its perfect, he will still take (minimal) damage. Maybe make a few boss attacks still do damage even in perfect guard? (Assuming Leon will be added any time soon, who's working on him again?)


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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2016, 05:10:32 PM »
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Just a question, would these ideas be used to fill up the move list of characters missing them or to plan the move list of future characters?

Both, if possible.

Quote
Wouldn't that be a little like holy water with a larger area (vertically)?

Not exactly, the crystal waits for something to get close to explode, I now realize it's like Hammer's mine, though, it's not on the ground, and can be used in the air too.

Quote
Also, about Leon's version of perfect guard, in some walkthroughs I noticed in some cases, even if its perfect, he will still take (minimal) damage. Maybe make a few boss attacks still do damage even in perfect guard? (Assuming Leon will be added any time soon, who's working on him again?)

I've played Loi a lot, regretfully so... Anyway, Leon never takes a hit if you block an attack with the perfect guard, the closest you can get is if you do a perfect guard, then don't block or dodge the next hit (Specialy if it's something that can't be blocked with a regular block, like Walter's demonic megiddo), regular blocking is the same, though in Crazy mode it'll break his guard immediately, which leaves him more vulnerable.

Guess the biggest difference between both blocks is to just make the perfect guard the safer one, though now that I think of it, wasting MP to block is silly, since you have backdashes with I-frames on this game, lol.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Vedoka-Kingdom is working on Leon, though, I don't know if he's still working on those characters.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 01:16:52 PM »
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So, would it be possible to add LoS1's fairy sub weapons? The way they work is that they distract an enemy, and the adaptation in here could be that the enemy starts to go after her instead of going after Gabriel, to work on VS, the tracking moves could go after her (So she'd need to actualy fly away from the opponent to make that useful), which would make her useful in some matchups.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2016, 07:56:44 AM »
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the helper objects can't be detected by enemies that way, the detection only works on players and the thing is hardcoded into the engine, so nope.

i have no code to detect position of foreign helpers. a helper can tell its distance from its origin as well as from the closest enemy which could be used, but that only works for self-created ones, not enemy's, so the enemy couldn't check for that helper's distance from itself compared to the player.

the closest i could get is try to check the enemy distance of enemy's helper, but that requires multiple redirections which isn't supported by mugen yet.

and then there's the problem of multiple helpers. the code would either have to track every possible helper id (and this would get even more confusing when more than one with the same id appears, like subweapons), or just the first available one, which could be lifebars or walls.

not even 1.1 can do that. lol.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2016, 01:38:24 PM »
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the helper objects can't be detected by enemies that way, the detection only works on players and the thing is hardcoded into the engine, so nope.

i have no code to detect position of foreign helpers. a helper can tell its distance from its origin as well as from the closest enemy which could be used, but that only works for self-created ones, not enemy's, so the enemy couldn't check for that helper's distance from itself compared to the player.

the closest i could get is try to check the enemy distance of enemy's helper, but that requires multiple redirections which isn't supported by mugen yet.

and then there's the problem of multiple helpers. the code would either have to track every possible helper id (and this would get even more confusing when more than one with the same id appears, like subweapons), or just the first available one, which could be lifebars or walls.

not even 1.1 can do that. lol.

Guess the fairies would need to be used only with Light magic activated then, guess they could work as a special input move like Death's up,qcf attack.

Offline Venom Splatter

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 11:21:44 PM »
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Maybe you guys could make use of some of the sub weapons you have for characters now, like a lock on dagger, a cross that when thrown goes up like the axe and goes down and comes back above players head making a sort of  "U" shape, a bible that shoots pages out of it at enemies like the dagger item crash but weaker and a small amount, holy water that explodes like a Molotov and spreads a large distance (but goes out when it touches the ground), an axe that is thrown and sticks to enemy for a short time causing a sort of bleeding effect. i also wouldn't mind seeing the fairies from LOS be implemented either T\they could be used to temporarily stun enemy right?  i didn't really use them in LOS but I DEFINATELY WOULD in Castlevania Fighter sometimes I need a minute to get my bearings when a boss starts wrecking my shit,(dam werewolf)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 11:28:28 PM by Venom Splatter »
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 11:32:37 PM »
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Maybe you guys could make use of some of the sub weapons you have for characters now, like a lock on dagger, a cross that when thrown goes up like the axe and goes down and comes back above players head making a sort of  "U" shape, a bible that shoots pages out of it at enemies like the dagger item crash but weaker and a small amount, holy water that explodes like a Molotov and spreads a large distance (but goes out when it touches the ground), an axe that is thrown and sticks to enemy for a short time causing a sort of bleeding effect. i also wouldn't mind seeing the fairies from LOS be implemented either i didn't really use them in LOS but I DEFINATELY WOULD in Castlevania Fighter sometimes I need a minute to get my bearings when a boss starts wrecking my shit,(dam werewolf)

Adapting the original fairies is complicated, they would become a helper object, those can't do anything to make a boss stop attacking you, because their AI is coded to attack the player(s) and nothing else.

Then again, it's not impossible, they could paralyse bosses, when you activate a super on MUGEN the game stops movement except the player's if you want to, so the fairies could just do that with a boss, though something like that would be too strong if it worked on all bosses, so it could have a limited number of uses, like only once (Which could be achieved just by making their hitboxes still be around even after they're gone).

Offline Venom Splatter

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2016, 12:14:34 AM »
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I figured as much, well assuming they are only being used for Gabriel then maybe he could do it twice, like the stopwatch but what I meant about the fairy; not like activating a super in mugen, i mean like how some of my downloaded mugen characters act if they start getting wailed on in a big string of combos, they are stunned for about 3 to 5 seconds (something like that)  Gabriel casually lets go of the fairy from his side and it flies into the enemies face stopping them for a short period. oh! you could make it useless to use on certain enemies too if you guys are worried about it being o.p like say it won't affect paranioa because he hides in a mirror, OR the fairy could also be a projectile that can be destroyed because it technically is a living creatures so certain moves could destroy it that are more powerful. not only that Gabriel does'nt use many of the traditionnal sub weapons from the games, except the dagger? I can't recall i know he did't use the croos i know that for sure.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2016, 01:31:07 AM »
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I figured as much, well assuming they are only being used for Gabriel then maybe he could do it twice, like the stopwatch but what I meant about the fairy; not like activating a super in mugen, i mean like how some of my downloaded mugen characters act if they start getting wailed on in a big string of combos, they are stunned for about 3 to 5 seconds (something like that)  Gabriel casually lets go of the fairy from his side and it flies into the enemies face stopping them for a short period. oh! you could make it useless to use on certain enemies too if you guys are worried about it being o.p like say it won't affect paranioa because he hides in a mirror, OR the fairy could also be a projectile that can be destroyed because it technically is a living creatures so certain moves could destroy it that are more powerful. not only that Gabriel does'nt use many of the traditionnal sub weapons from the games, except the dagger? I can't recall i know he did't use the croos i know that for sure.

The bosses have a permanent armor status, they can't be hit and enter a "I'm getting hit" state, so if the super idea isn't used, then there's no way the fairies could be effective.

I'm not suggesting for them to be activated like a super anyways, just use a super-state, like the stop watch does, it stops the opponent's movement every other frame, it's the only way that Serio could adapt stop watch.

Fairies being destroyable would backfire very fast since the bosses like to be agressive, if you used them when the boss is far, the boss would just walk into them and destroy them with contact damage.

As for sub weapons Gabriel used, he had the dagger and holy water, dagger had a "charged" version where he would throw more of them together, holy water had bigger area of effect than any other holy water, and if you used it with light mode activated, it would also activate a barrier to protect Gabriel, he also got new ones with the fairies and dark crystal, I did write a moveset for Gabriel, but I didn't include the regular fairies, only included when Gabriel uses them with Light mode, that way he'd have them as those bombing fairies.

Offline Venom Splatter

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2016, 05:34:00 PM »
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The bosses have a permanent armor status, they can't be hit and enter a "I'm getting hit" state, so if the super idea isn't used, then there's no way the fairies could be effective.

I'm not suggesting for them to be activated like a super anyways, just use a super-state, like the stop watch does, it stops the opponent's movement every other frame, it's the only way that Serio could adapt stop watch.

Fairies being destroyable would backfire very fast since the bosses like to be agressive, if you used them when the boss is far, the boss would just walk into them and destroy them with contact damage.

As for sub weapons Gabriel used, he had the dagger and holy water, dagger had a "charged" version where he would throw more of them together, holy water had bigger area of effect than any other holy water, and if you used it with light mode activated, it would also activate a barrier to protect Gabriel, he also got new ones with the fairies and dark crystal, I did write a moveset for Gabriel, but I didn't include the regular fairies, only included when Gabriel uses them with Light mode, that way he'd have them as those bombing fairies.
Oh dang! I forgot about the holy water! My bad it's been a while since i've played LOS, not gonna lie i've been playing a lotta terarria this year trying to build Dacula's castle with some of my favorite castle areas throughout the franchise, hell named my Character Trevor Belmont lol, hey that's really cool that your making Gabriel though i would help you guys more (other than giving my opinions, which makes me feel like an ass) but i do not know anything about making a character from scratch you guys that do this kind of work are the ABSOLUTE BEST! I can't wait to see Gabriel in action though, I have a question though will Gabriel have a small whip combination that differs from the other Belmont's, like attacking on the ground forward, then whipping the ground causing a shockwave, ect.? I ALSO WANT TO GIVE YOU A SHOUTOUT YOUR THE REASON I JOINED THE SITE FOR ANSWERING MY DUMB QUESTION IN THE GUEST HOLDING PEN ABOUT WHERE TO PUT THE HQ MUSIC FILE, THANK YOU LUKMENDES I APPRECIATE YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO US, AND TO THE GAME.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 05:53:06 PM »
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Oh dang! I forgot about the holy water! My bad it's been a while since i've played LOS, not gonna lie i've been playing a lotta terarria this year trying to build Dacula's castle with some of my favorite castle areas throughout the franchise, hell named my Character Trevor Belmont lol, hey that's really cool that your making Gabriel though i would help you guys more (other than giving my opinions, which makes me feel like an ass) but i do not know anything about making a character from scratch you guys that do this kind of work are the ABSOLUTE BEST! I can't wait to see Gabriel in action though, I have a question though will Gabriel have a small whip combination that differs from the other Belmont's, like attacking on the ground forward, then whipping the ground causing a shockwave, ect.? I ALSO WANT TO GIVE YOU A SHOUTOUT YOUR THE REASON I JOINED THE SITE FOR ANSWERING MY DUMB QUESTION IN THE GUEST HOLDING PEN ABOUT WHERE TO PUT THE HQ MUSIC FILE, THANK YOU LUKMENDES I APPRECIATE YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO US, AND TO THE GAME.

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'm not making Gabriel, I can't draw sprites, I just wrote a moveset suggestion for him (And other 20 characters, lol), and currently no one is making sprites for LoS1 Gabriel, and I have no idea if Vedora Kingdom still is working on LoS2 Gabriel.

Also, giving opinions is not a problem here, if it were then I barely would comment, since a lot of my posts are my opinions on something, lol.

Offline Venom Splatter

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2016, 06:36:37 PM »
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Thank you lukmendes i appreciate you letting me know this, as of right now your the only one who's responded to any of my posts, your like a machine man i see you in every post i go to, your awesome for helping so many others in your posts or just voicing your opinion, and dam! i thought someone was working on Gabriel, oh well, my favorite character is Trevor from curse of darkness anyway. I'm literally on edge with excitement I KNOW he'll be in the game, BUT THE SUSPENSE IS FIGURATIVELY KILLING ME!
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 07:43:32 PM »
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Thank you lukmendes i appreciate you letting me know this, as of right now your the only one who's responded to any of my posts, your like a machine man i see you in every post i go to, your awesome for helping so many others in your posts or just voicing your opinion, and dam! i thought someone was working on Gabriel, oh well, my favorite character is Trevor from curse of darkness anyway. I'm literally on edge with excitement I KNOW he'll be in the game, BUT THE SUSPENSE IS FIGURATIVELY KILLING ME!

The forum is on life support for years and the few members who are around generaly don't pust much/don't post as much as before (Understandable, some have been here for a really long time, so you kind of run out of subjects).

Trevor, Cyber was working on him, though last time I saw him talk about it was in 2014, no idea about his progress so far, even if he's already finished, it can take a ong time for Serio to code Trevor, because, years ago, Frog only had a backdash, jumps, and the tongue strike, lacked his flight mode, water jet and special inputs, and Serio says it took an entire day to put him with that very incomplete moveset, adding Trevor would obviously take much longer, then we have to remember there are other characters also in line, so, yeah, if you're gonna stick around, you'll learn how to wait lol.

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Re: Moves which aren't used/ideas for other moves
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 05:35:12 AM »
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Quote
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'm not making Gabriel, I can't draw sprites, I just wrote a moveset suggestion for him (And other 20 characters, lol), and currently no one is making sprites for LoS1 Gabriel, and I have no idea if Vedora Kingdom still is working on LoS2 Gabriel.

Yep, there were many people who offered and then pulled back their offers after multiple difficulties and personal stuff. Heck, even the banned owlboy worked on him once, but you know what happened. Even Slogra dropped him after some time. Vedora-Kingdom hasn't returned in a while, though he has his own website containing his spritework, even Walter is there without any particles or effects and such. Also, sadly, he has stopped working on LoS2 Gabriel/Dracul as deep as I read.

Quote
The forum is on life support for years and the few members who are around generaly don't pust much/don't post as much as before (Understandable, some have been here for a really long time, so you kind of run out of subjects).

Trevor, Cyber was working on him, though last time I saw him talk about it was in 2014, no idea about his progress so far, even if he's already finished, it can take a ong time for Serio to code Trevor, because, years ago, Frog only had a backdash, jumps, and the tongue strike, lacked his flight mode, water jet and special inputs, and Serio says it took an entire day to put him with that very incomplete moveset, adding Trevor would obviously take much longer, then we have to remember there are other characters also in line, so, yeah, if you're gonna stick around, you'll learn how to wait lol.

Actually, he mentioned spriting Trevor once in this reply http://serio.piiym.net/cvbla/board/index.php?topic=224.msg10917#msg10917. Then there's the thing with combos and so on. My posting frequency has stayed about the same, but I've been playing the game a lot less than before...(Well, can't wait for the next beta to come out with more content, but i don't want to pressure Serio to hurry, don't want the new stuff to be rushed).

He/she also saw this coming when talking about using the forum in the textboard, that most of the members registered don't post anything and just register to be able to see attached images and other stuff:

Quote
eh, i used this kind of message board because it allows anonymous posting.
i don't like the forced registration a lot of places use, especially those that block access to content until you're registered, as if doing that would magically give them more active people, instead of more ghost accounts.


(And no, I'm not from 4chan! Or from the textboard)