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Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« on: August 29, 2012, 07:00:22 PM »
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I'm sure everyone is aware by now that the premise of this game is that Uber Dracula beat Trevor in 1476 after both Lisa and Adrian/Alucard were killed due to mobs/violence, thus prematurely ending the Belmont bloodline and damning humanity to centuries of tyranny. Dracula's power grows until he accumulates enough to threaten the stability of all existence, and this in turn prompts time travelers inc. (Aeon, Germaine et al) to start dragging heroes from other timelines to deal with the threat. There's more to it then just that (in the spoiler below for space reasons), but that's an abridged summary. :P

(click to show/hide)

As Dracula's chaotic power is threatening reality to a severe degree with its continued growth, he's become a focal point of dimensional activity, a sort of negative vacuum that is accruing any ounce of "his" power that he can from across the Castlevania multiverse. All of the evil minions that have served Dracula in the official games will make their way here. Their souls/spirits are as much "afflicted by Dracula’s curse, or related to it in some way" as the heroes are, though this (obviously) needs not apply to the beasts that are fairly commonplace, like the Phantom Bat, Minotaur, and Werewolf bosses (to name a few). :x

Aeon and Germaine work to counter (and hopefully eliminate) Uber Dracula (his might and growing army) through the recruiting/summoning of heroes. Those heroes that fail on their journey to slay the count are forcefully conscripted against their comrades, to further impede them on their quest (i.e. Sisters, Albus, Richter, etc). On that note, mirror matches should be approached in a self-reflective way, or via doppelganger, such as the instance where player Richter encounters boss Richter. Should player Richter be defeated, he will effectively become the boss Richter other player characters encounter on their quest.

Not sure if it's my place to post this, but I feel it'll help establish/cement key concepts:

...here is how I choose to split hairs:

UNIVERSE - The mythos surrounding a property (e.g. the Castlevania mythos is its own universe, whilst the Touhou mythos has its own--though it's obvious that at least two Touhou games are more than a little influenced by the Castlevania universe, and any argument to the contrary is just ridiculous).

TIMELINE - A version of reality created through the decisions made by the citizens of a given universe  (e.g. within the Castlevania universe there exists multiple timelines, including the Main/IGA timeline and the Reboot/LoS timeline).

DIMENSION - A plane of existence for a given entity (e.g. Death and Aeon are gods and therefore exist on a higher plane than Simon and Trevor).

To recap, there's at least a handful of timelines that characters/bosses will be culled from for this game:
  • Uber Dracula's timeline (the one where the game takes place proper in)
  • Main timeline (featuring the Classicvanias and KCET games)
  • Gaiden timeline (where Legends and the KCEK games are)
  • Cellphone universe(s) (yes, plural)
  • Player Dracula's timeline (he'll be the only one coming from his own, according to ideas Morrison had)
  • Touhouvania universe (Sakuya and Reimu's home, notice it's not generic Touhou)
Duke and Ronald will in all likelihood not have stories at all, but that's not important for this discussion. >_>

This thread will serve as a discussion focus so we can come to a consensus about each individual boss (if applicable) regarding finer details of where they come from, what their motivations are, and how they're going to behave/(re)act to events in the stories presented in this sub-forum. It is strongly recommended that you follow these guidelines when penning/drafting your stories. :T

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« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:50:00 AM by (yber])ragon10]{ »
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Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 07:00:58 PM »
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Boss:Dario Bossi (W.I.P.)
Origin:Main dimension (2036 A.D.)
Summary:A punk from modern times, he comes from the future after running out of Celia's castle, powerless because of Soma Cruz's actions. His dark lord candidacy is what piques Uber Dracula's interest, whom enlists/draws Dario into his realm and service, granting the candidate an approximation of his previous power. Dario serves Dracula unquestioningly in awe/fear of the true Dark Lord's power, and for a chance at taking revenge against Soma, with the promise of more power should he succeed in his task. Far better to serve the devil, than to stand in his way.

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Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 07:01:22 PM »
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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 07:01:46 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 07:15:38 PM by (yber])ragon10]{ »
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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 07:14:59 PM »
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Don't mind the blank posts above. They're reserved in case the game gets enough bosses that summarizing everything will spill into multiple posts. :3

Now, let's get the obvious out of the way. Uber Dracula? You're dumb if you don't know where he's from. Death is Death, and he'll have ties to every dimension, excepting the Touhouverse since they have their own Death gods. Brainless/feral monsters like Agni/Cerberus/Phantom Bat are largely of no concern either. :P

Having said that, there's a few bosses that people seem to be generally agreeing on from the stories I've seen, though we'll need to chisel out specifics still:

  • Dario:
    A punk from modern times, he comes from 2036 after running out of Celia's castle, powerless. Though he is a dark lord candidate, he ends up in Uber Dracula's service, and in awe/fear of the true Dark Lord's power, serves him unquestioningly while waiting for a chance for revenge against Soma. After all, it's better to serve the devil than to stand in his way.
  • Olrox:
    A cunning, if not conniving schemer, Olrox has plans of his own to take the throne of the Dark Lord, but lacks the will to carry it out under Dracula's reign. He bides his time, seldom revealing his cards to key players unless he is certain he can tie up loose ends, or if they are of no threat to his plans.

There are points of contention to be had with but one boss so far:

  • Brauner:
    I fancy him as a native to Uber Dracula's dimension, simply so we don't get people regurgitating PoR's version word-for-word where he assumes Dracula is an idiot and that he can do better. Brauner will still lose his daughters to tragedy, but Dracula should be the one who offers Brauner a chance to see his daughters again, resurrecting them in exchange for Brauner's service and loyalty. This serves to underscore his mad desperation, in that he expects Uber Dracula to uphold their bargain when clearly the mad king simply wants to enlist another soldier.

And now the floor is yours. Let's see what we agree on, and I'll update this thread accordingly as things are set (more or less) in stone. :]
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Offline rasgar

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2012, 07:16:27 PM »
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My initial thoughts are that Albus and Richter, at least, must come from their own dimension. With Trevor dead, Richter would obviously never exist in the current dimension. And if Dracula never died, then Albus might never have become the researcher that he is now, and definitely not the possessed/insane person he is - there would be no Dominus glyph.

Dario, I'm undecided on. It would seem that he has no purpose if he weren't pulled from his own dimension, since he'd just be a regular guy (plus some Agnified powers, perhaps) since he would never be raised as a "successor" to Dracula. But if he is pulled from his own dimension, what reason does he have to fight, if there's no chance of him becoming the dark lord (since Dracula isn't dead)? I know some people, myself included, have been writing as though Dracula himself might promise Dario a chunk of power if he does well - and if he fights for that reason, then perhaps he should be from the Uber Drac dimension.

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 07:25:54 PM »
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I made a similar thread long ago, should I delete it and paste what I wrote here? (and add the "aware of what's going on" thing next to each character, of course)

Also, Dario is stupid. He was humiliated by Soma and knows tha if he joins the Dark Lord he will eventually get the chance to fight him.
Let's say Dario fell in a time rift (Canon Dimension) and found out that Dracula is much more scarier than the Twilight stories at the cinema so he is now aware of who the BIG BAD BOSS is. Then Dracula saw how much hatred was in Dario's heart and promised him to give him back his powers to help him in fulfilling his revenge. To trick himself into thinking he is a thought guy he says to himself "First Soma, then... Dracula!" even though he knows that he really doesn't have what it takes to confront Dracula.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 07:37:06 PM by Malphas »

Offline Superscope

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 05:54:42 AM »
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  • Brauner:
    I fancy him as a native to Uber Dracula's dimension, simply so we don't get people regurgitating PoR's version word-for-word where he assumes Dracula is an idiot and that he can do better. Brauner will still lose his daughters to tragedy, but Dracula should be the one who offers Brauner a chance to see his daughters again, resurrecting them in exchange for Brauner's service and loyalty. This serves to underscore his mad desperation, in that he expects Uber Dracula to uphold their bargain when clearly the mad king simply wants to enlist another soldier.

There is a slight problem with this. Brauner died at the year 1944. He roughly became a vampire 30 years before that when his daughters died.

If he was a native of the Uber Dracula's Dimension, and the current year is 1886. Then Brauner would be rather young at that time, wouldn't he?
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Offline rasgar

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 02:17:19 PM »
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There is a slight problem with this. Brauner died at the year 1944. He roughly became a vampire 30 years before that when his daughters died.

If he was a native of the Uber Dracula's Dimension, and the current year is 1886. Then Brauner would be rather young at that time, wouldn't he?

This is true, but things are definitely happening differently in Uber Drac's dimension - it's entirely possible that there wouldn't even be a WWI for his daughters to die in, even if that year hasn't come around yet. Something else could have killed his daughters in this alternate dimension earlier on.

Although... unless we assume that Brauner was somehow born earlier in this alternate dimension, not only would he be really young, but his daughters would either not be born yet, or far too young to be confused with Stella and Loretta. So... your point probably still stands.

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 02:19:10 PM »
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Perhaps it would be more logical for the later part of the main story to start later? Perhaps the year 1920s or 40s?

Otherwise, it will get very complex with Brauner, Stella and Loretta. It also wouldn't effect how others would come into the story either.
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Offline Malphas

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2012, 02:33:21 PM »
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Different dimensions can also mean that penicilin was invented in the stone age.
I think Brauner could be married and divorced twelve times by that time since it's not exactly the same world.

Still, the best thing we could do is change him into the EXTRA dimension (which is basically any alternative dimension not stated by Cyber)
Brauner tries to summon Dracula's castle in his dimension, but uber-Drac's castlevania is so powerful that opens a rift in time and Brauner is dragged into Uber-dimension. Finally, Brauner decides to serve Dracula to take revenge on humanity.

INTERESTING POINT: Dracula could be the embodiment of all evils so he could actually be more Dark Lord than ever. That means that he MAKES Dario more blind for hatred and anger than ever ans so he MAKES the same with Brauner. He can make your negative emotions rise to the extent that you lose control of yourself and become either a mindless servant or a self-righteous crazy fool who thinks that serving him is the right thing because it is.

Offline rasgar

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2012, 02:43:28 PM »
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Still, the best thing we could do is change him into the EXTRA dimension (which is basically any alternative dimension not stated by Cyber)
Brauner tries to summon Dracula's castle in his dimension, but uber-Drac's castlevania is so powerful that opens a rift in time and Brauner is dragged into Uber-dimension. Finally, Brauner decides to serve Dracula to take revenge on humanity.

That seems unnecessary. Besides, I think we've already decided that the focus for Brauner is not his hatred of humanity, but rather his love for his daughters.

Anyhow, to talk about another boss - I think Barlowe should be from his own dimension. There, he could grow into the person he is now, with his desire to give humanity what it "really wants" by bringing back Dracula. Now that he's ended up in Uber Drac's house, he's super happy and a devoted servant.

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2012, 01:18:46 AM »
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My initial thoughts are that Albus and Richter, at least, must come from their own dimension. With Trevor dead, Richter would obviously never exist in the current dimension. And if Dracula never died, then Albus might never have become the researcher that he is now, and definitely not the possessed/insane person he is - there would be no Dominus glyph.

I figure for Albus that it'd be best if he comes from the time just after absorbing Dominus Agony, but before being confronted by Shanoa in Mystery Manor. That way, the boss version has Dominus Agony pulsing around inside him causing his fits of insanity as he struggles to maintain his own mind, and my draft for Player Albus retains its interesting angle to work off of. :D

Richter definitely cannot be "native" either. I haven't thought about his origins as much, but I'm certain a plausible motivation could be given beyond simply "I will kill Dracula over and over again for teh lulz!" in that it stems from his insecurities, his fears about becoming useless and forgotten after his role in history runs its course. If people aren't going to remember him, then screw the people; he'll do whatever he wants. How's that sound? :x

Dario, I'm undecided on. It would seem that he has no purpose if he weren't pulled from his own dimension, since he'd just be a regular guy (plus some Agnified powers, perhaps) since he would never be raised as a "successor" to Dracula. But if he is pulled from his own dimension, what reason does he have to fight, if there's no chance of him becoming the dark lord (since Dracula isn't dead)? I know some people, myself included, have been writing as though Dracula himself might promise Dario a chunk of power if he does well - and if he fights for that reason, then perhaps he should be from the Uber Drac dimension.

Also, Dario is stupid. He was humiliated by Soma and knows tha if he joins the Dark Lord he will eventually get the chance to fight him.
Let's say Dario fell in a time rift (Canon Dimension) and found out that Dracula is much more scarier than the Twilight stories at the cinema so he is now aware of who the BIG BAD BOSS is. Then Dracula saw how much hatred was in Dario's heart and promised him to give him back his powers to help him in fulfilling his revenge. To trick himself into thinking he is a thought guy he says to himself "First Soma, then... Dracula!" even though he knows that he really doesn't have what it takes to confront Dracula.

I like the idea of Dario being given power for revenge against Soma, and then being promised more once the deed is done. It explains why he has the winding dragon attack without the negative effects of something like Agni stapled to his soul. I'll amend that in the first summary post. :P

I made a similar thread long ago, should I delete it and paste what I wrote here? (and add the "aware of what's going on" thing next to each character, of course)

No sense in deleting it. I can move in to this forum and lock it for archival, and you can just link to your previous words to save typing time. :]

EDIT: Hmmm... I might've done that already. At any rate, you can still link to/quote your older posts if you don't feel like retyping, although I doubt there's a need to lock things that old. :S

This is true, but things are definitely happening differently in Uber Drac's dimension - it's entirely possible that there wouldn't even be a WWI for his daughters to die in, even if that year hasn't come around yet. Something else could have killed his daughters in this alternate dimension earlier on.

That was the idea I had; since the normal flow of time (normal vs. the main dimension) has been disrupted in Uber Drac's realm, things may very likely happen out of "sequence" or what have you. It might be a bit difficult to work with regarding Stella/Loretta, and I'm not sure if Fou has incorporated or even wants to incorporate this in his stories for Jon/Charlotte, but we'll figure it out. :/

That seems unnecessary. Besides, I think we've already decided that the focus for Brauner is not his hatred of humanity, but rather his love for his daughters.

Precisely. If I wanted to see him as he was in PoR, then I'd play that game, and get to watch Death bisect him afterwards to boot. There's no reason to be parroting the source games religiously, especially when they're going through the silly animu crap of DoS/PoR (random note: OoE needs better company to hang out with). >_>

Anyhow, to talk about another boss - I think Barlowe should be from his own dimension. There, he could grow into the person he is now, with his desire to give humanity what it "really wants" by bringing back Dracula. Now that he's ended up in Uber Drac's house, he's super happy and a devoted servant.

Perhaps while researching into the Dominus seal (and in the process of being corrupted by it), he's transported to Uber Drac's realm. Uber Drac senses his power trapped within the coffin/seal, and has Barlowe (now corrupted and easily swayed) break it anyway and add that sealed power to his own repertoire. :]

My idea for when Shanoa's story reaches Barlowe is that she feigns "slab of concrete with legs" for a bit (i.e. how she was in OoE proper) before Barlowe drops the bomb that he already sacrificed Shanoa from Uber Drac's realm years ago to increase his power. From there, they go into a speech war on the morality of their mission, which highlights how "freedom from Dracula" was twisted into "freedom through Dracula" through the years. A corruption angle is more sensible anyway, and sets Barlowe/Ecclesia apart from Shaft/cults who were evil all along. :x
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 01:41:18 AM by (yber])ragon10]{ »
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Offline Superscope

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2012, 08:19:28 AM »
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Quote
I figure for Albus that it'd be best if he comes from the time just after absorbing Dominus Agony, but before being confronted by Shanoa in Mystery Manor. That way, the boss version has Dominus Agony pulsing around inside him causing his fits of insanity as he struggles to maintain his own mind, and my draft for Player Albus retains its interesting angle to work off of. :D

I was going to ask about Boss Albus, since I'm writing that section for Sakuya at this current time.

I'm guessing both shaft and camilla are native to uber drac's timeline?
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Offline rasgar

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 04:00:46 PM »
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I figure for Albus that it'd be best if he comes from the time just after absorbing Dominus Agony, but before being confronted by Shanoa in Mystery Manor. That way, the boss version has Dominus Agony pulsing around inside him causing his fits of insanity as he struggles to maintain his own mind, and my draft for Player Albus retains its interesting angle to work off of. :D

I was thinking the same thing.

Quote
Richter definitely cannot be "native" either. I haven't thought about his origins as much, but I'm certain a plausible motivation could be given beyond simply "I will kill Dracula over and over again for teh lulz!" in that it stems from his insecurities, his fears about becoming useless and forgotten after his role in history runs its course. If people aren't going to remember him, then screw the people; he'll do whatever he wants. How's that sound? :x

Interesting... I may look over my Richter encounter again to see if I might want to tweak it.

Quote
That was the idea I had; since the normal flow of time (normal vs. the main dimension) has been disrupted in Uber Drac's realm, things may very likely happen out of "sequence" or what have you. It might be a bit difficult to work with regarding Stella/Loretta, and I'm not sure if Fou has incorporated or even wants to incorporate this in his stories for Jon/Charlotte, but we'll figure it out. :/

If we're to assume that Brauner is native, and Uber Dracula "promises" to bring his daughters back, then it's entirely possible that he never met the twins and confused them for his own daughters. As such, perhaps Stella and Loretta can be from the main timeline, which would explain why they think of Brauner as their dad. I doubt there will be any conflict since Brauner will never encounter the boss-twins. And if the player twins are from before PoR (say, the beginning of sisters mode), then they wouldn't know Brauner at all, thus no conflict there either. When they encounter him, though, he could always say something like "you remind me of my daughters... can it be? Has Dracula come through with his promise?"

Quote
Precisely. If I wanted to see him as he was in PoR, then I'd play that game, and get to watch Death bisect him afterwards to boot. There's no reason to be parroting the source games religiously, especially when they're going through the silly animu crap of DoS/PoR (random note: OoE needs better company to hang out with). >_>

Speaking of which, did you really approve Malphas's Hammer story? It seems rather silly and lighthearted to me.

Quote
A corruption angle is more sensible anyway, and sets Barlowe/Ecclesia apart from Shaft/cults who were evil all along. :x

I like that. That's a good way of keeping him separate from the other Drac-revivers.

 

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