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Author Topic: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus  (Read 15075 times)

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Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2013, 01:11:13 AM »
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Wasnt mentioned some time ago that since player Death was the same as boss Death he was some sort of timeless being? I could be wrong but that's what I remember. Anyway, even if Death could see the future I doubt he would be chasing after human imaginaries just to create new monsters, unless he looked specifically after people who he knew would eventually make iconical myths and things, Lovecraft being a great example.

Well, if Death can indeed see in the future, then he knows what monsters will be created and recognized as fearsome and dangerous creatures of fiction. If Death cannot see in the future (which I believe he can't, taking the canon in consideration, and Death's troubles with time travellers), then I point to Dracula's library being an "Akashic Record" of literature, produced by Chaos/the Castle itself, by channeling information from the future. It would also explain the various anachronic itens present inside the Castle while they weren't even invented yet (Hamburger, I'm looking at you). How does the Castle do it, though, I can't hypothesize... yet, but I think the presence of the Clock Tower might have something to do with it.

Offline GentlemanAeon

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2013, 03:33:48 AM »
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Well, if Death can indeed see in the future, then he knows what monsters will be created and recognized as fearsome and dangerous creatures of fiction. If Death cannot see in the future (which I believe he can't, taking the canon in consideration, and Death's troubles with time travellers), then I point to Dracula's library being an "Akashic Record" of literature, produced by Chaos/the Castle itself, by channeling information from the future. It would also explain the various anachronic itens present inside the Castle while they weren't even invented yet (Hamburger, I'm looking at you). How does the Castle do it, though, I can't hypothesize... yet, but I think the presence of the Clock Tower might have something to do with it.

Hmm, after seeing some items on the castle's geography and it's center being Chaos, as well as the concept of having the title of "Dark Lord".
Well, would it be alright of me to post a theory of mine? Although I must say that it may sound completely out of whack with Castlevania and sound more or less like a crazy man. Case in point, I got the idea from a Magical Girl anime.
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Offline VictorBorAng

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2013, 03:17:47 PM »
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Quote
Well, if Death can indeed see in the future, then he knows what monsters will be created and recognized as fearsome and dangerous creatures of fiction. If Death cannot see in the future (which I believe he can't, taking the canon in consideration, and Death's troubles with time travellers), then I point to Dracula's library being an "Akashic Record" of literature, produced by Chaos/the Castle itself, by channeling information from the future. It would also explain the various anachronic itens present inside the Castle while they weren't even invented yet (Hamburger, I'm looking at you). How does the Castle do it, though, I can't hypothesize... yet, but I think the presence of the Clock Tower might have something to do with it.

It's called Chaos, it can do anything it wants without having to explain itself

Offline RyuTheWeredragon

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2014, 03:25:50 AM »
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I hate to blow up a lot of theories already...

But as the one in charge of Richter's story, I have to say that having the Richter you fight as a boss be the REAL Richter kinda' treads on the toes of his plot.

If the defeat pose could be changed so he fell onto the floor like Simon or Carrie, that'd be one thing, but at the moment, he dies in a mess of gore. This means it can NOT be the real Richter, or else Julius would cease to exist, and thus it'd ruin the main timeline.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2014, 12:46:15 PM »
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Quote
If the defeat pose could be changed so he fell onto the floor like Simon or Carrie, that'd be one thing
already possible. every boss mode playable character has two ko anims, one the default arcade one, one story mode-specific which can be used instead of the arcade version. in that one the character simply lands and crouches down, and then remains like that.
Dracula was here

Offline RyuTheWeredragon

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2014, 07:05:18 PM »
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Alright. Was making sure, because some people may be a bit happy to kill Richter off - I recall back in the old text only boards that there was a LOT of plots that had Richter die at the end of the fight.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2014, 02:15:16 PM »
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One thing I'm wondering here, if Gabriel/Dracul is ever added, that would mean he would fight Death eventualy and probably think he's Zobek, the question is: Is Classic CV Death Zobek? I know you guys want to make Death be a multi-dimensional being (Except for Touhou's universe), but by making Death and Zobek be one and the same, it would mean Death originated from LoS universe because Zobek was once a human, and Death has only that form (Robe, scythe, skeleton) because Zobek changed his true form to become like that, there's also the fact they have different personalities, but maybe that one can be explained with the fact he doesn't serve anyone in LoS.

Offline rasgar

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2014, 02:33:12 PM »
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I would argue that while Zobek fills a Death-like role, he may not actually be "Death". Officially he is the Lord of the Dead, which may not be the same thing. Granted I haven't played LoS2 yet so maybe it's expanded on there.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2014, 06:42:33 PM »
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I would argue that while Zobek fills a Death-like role, he may not actually be "Death". Officially he is the Lord of the Dead, which may not be the same thing. Granted I haven't played LoS2 yet so maybe it's expanded on there.

While LoS1 calls him Lord of the dead, LoS2 calls him Death, but his LoS2 profile also says that he changed his true form to look like the concept of Death (Again, Skeleton, scythe, robe), so if you guys decide against making Zobek and Death be one and the same, I guess it could say Zobek is "just" a strong Necromancer who just looks like Death/pretends to be Death.

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2014, 06:24:37 AM »
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I would argue that while Zobek fills a Death-like role, he may not actually be "Death". Officially he is the Lord of the Dead, which may not be the same thing. Granted I haven't played LoS2 yet so maybe it's expanded on there.

Nyope. Saw the highlight reel on YouTube. Doesn't explain shit about Zobek. At this point, he's a powerful necromancer, a Lord of Shadow, and nothing more. :T

I would hope that if Gabriel were added in, a competent writer would take him from before the Dracolich fight/after killing Pan, when his resolve is wafer thin, so that seeing Uber Dracula's potential is what subconsciously spurs him to welcome dark powers he's earned. I don't believe this game needs any more Draculas running around besides the boss one, and the future playable one... not to mention having "vanilla" Gabriel would encompass the unique facets of LoS' combat without being redundant with another Simon/Trevucard. :/
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2014, 12:13:24 AM »
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I don't see how LoS2 Gabriel would be a problem on a game with 3 Simons, 2 Richters and 2 Marias, specialy because he's very different from classic CV Dracula... If the name were to be a problem, just call him Dracul (That's how he calls himself anyway, characters in LoS just mistankenly call him Dracula).

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #86 on: November 05, 2014, 03:08:27 AM »
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I don't see how LoS2 Gabriel would be a problem on a game with 3 Simons, 2 Richters and 2 Marias, specialy because he's very different from classic CV Dracula... If the name were to be a problem, just call him Dracul (That's how he calls himself anyway, characters in LoS just mistankenly call him Dracula).

Fair enough. I don't see a whole lot that's functionally different between Gabeula and Gabriel, personally... in terms of aesthetics and execution though, plenty. Gabriel with Gabeula as a hold start alt. would be a good compromise I feel, but that's all on whoever wants them in to sprite out both sets, maybe with those in-game travel book sketches as a starting point. :T

I still stand by LoS-verse Simon/Trevor having barely anything unique to them, especially with how MoF handled their whip play/magic. Unless more skins are absolutely in demand, I'd say just absorb their sub-weapons into vanilla Gabriel or something. LoS Alucard has that DLC campaign in LoS2 to draw moves/movements from at least. :/
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2014, 03:18:21 PM »
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Fair enough. I don't see a whole lot that's functionally different between Gabeula and Gabriel, personally... in terms of aesthetics and execution though, plenty. Gabriel with Gabeula as a hold start alt. would be a good compromise I feel, but that's all on whoever wants them in to sprite out both sets, maybe with those in-game travel book sketches as a starting point. :T

The main differences between LoS1 and LoS2 are that LoS2 Gabriel has Void Sword and Chaos Claws, while they both have the same basic function as light magic and dark magic, they have different ranges than the whip, and of course, elemental damage and other ranged attacks, LoS2 Gabriel also lacks sub weapons like holy water and the fairies, he has Mist Form and it's offensive options with Void Sword and Chaos Claws as well, and he can use his dodge on the air to go back to the ground, those differences are significant enough.

Quote
I still stand by LoS-verse Simon/Trevor having barely anything unique to them, especially with how MoF handled their whip play/magic. Unless more skins are absolutely in demand, I'd say just absorb their sub-weapons into vanilla Gabriel or something. LoS Alucard has that DLC campaign in LoS2 to draw moves/movements from at least. :/

LoS Simon at least has the Spirit of Belnadez and Spirit of Schneider, they both function really differently from Light Magic and Dark Magic, the problem is that Spirit of Belnadez can block any kind of damage (Including unblockables lol) and Simon doesn't get into blockstun when it blocks, so he can just attacking, not sure how that would be balanced... LoS Trevor is basicaly 2D LoS1 Gabriel with different sub weapons, so, he's the most useless one, and I'm not a big fan of transfering Simon's and Trevor's sub weapons to Gabriel, because that could possibly make him a character with too many tools at his disposal (Simon's throwing axe as anti-air, Trevor's Boomerang could possibly make the daggers useless, Electric Bomb to get rid of projectiles or just leave hitboxes around to damage the opponent), and characters who have everything can be boring to play with if those tools are too strong...

Offline Morrison

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2015, 03:59:37 AM »
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Well, if Death can indeed see in the future, then he knows what monsters will be created and recognized as fearsome and dangerous creatures of fiction. If Death cannot see in the future (which I believe he can't, taking the canon in consideration, and Death's troubles with time travellers), then I point to Dracula's library being an "Akashic Record" of literature, produced by Chaos/the Castle itself, by channeling information from the future. It would also explain the various anachronic itens present inside the Castle while they weren't even invented yet (Hamburger, I'm looking at you). How does the Castle do it, though, I can't hypothesize... yet, but I think the presence of the Clock Tower might have something to do with it.

Wait, wait...

I know I've been gone awhile, but I'm a little lost, and I really only need a "yes" or a "no" on this question:

Are we discussing how monsters can possibly exist in a world where the Grim Reaper is the physical personification of Death and, beyond that, DRACULA exists?

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2015, 02:26:22 AM »
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One thing I've been thinking about is an explanation on how the characters can go to so many random locations (They start at Castlevania's entrance but end up going to other places like City of Haze Street), and one thing I thought of is Brauner being the one doing that, similar to how Jonathan and Charlotte can go to other places very far from Castlevania with his paintings in PoR, maybe it can be said that his powers were increased by Uber Dracula, which is why he can do it without his paintings, and Brauner does that to delay/weaken/kill the characters by forcing them to fight all those bosses.

But of course, for that to work properly, it would need to be done with MUGEN 1.1 with the 30 tiers of bosses, just so Brauner can be put on a tier after Albus and Barlowe, wouldn't make sense for Brauner to be defeated/killed, thus, ending the cause of those random teleportations, then the characters are suddenly on Ecclesia, outside of Castlevania.

What do you guys think about this?

 

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