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Author Topic: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus  (Read 15076 times)

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Offline Morrison

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2015, 12:32:02 AM »
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One thing I've been thinking about is an explanation on how the characters can go to so many random locations (They start at Castlevania's entrance but end up going to other places like City of Haze Street), and one thing I thought of is Brauner being the one doing that, similar to how Jonathan and Charlotte can go to other places very far from Castlevania with his paintings in PoR, maybe it can be said that his powers were increased by Uber Dracula, which is why he can do it without his paintings, and Brauner does that to delay/weaken/kill the characters by forcing them to fight all those bosses.

But of course, for that to work properly, it would need to be done with MUGEN 1.1 with the 30 tiers of bosses, just so Brauner can be put on a tier after Albus and Barlowe, wouldn't make sense for Brauner to be defeated/killed, thus, ending the cause of those random teleportations, then the characters are suddenly on Ecclesia, outside of Castlevania.

What do you guys think about this?

I'm not sure.  I think there could be several explanations for the disjointed nature of this particular castle, actually.  For instance...

So, Uber Drac is essentially a personified black hole, sucking in power from across all timelines/dimensions/universes/whatever--the personification of the perfect cosmic parasite, which if we're being poetic, is a void.  I would think with all the dead universes and timelines (assuming there are some that have been sucked dry by Uber Dracula already, or at least some which are severely damaged, and these would be what's prompting action against him in the first place), some pieces and parts that have "broken off" (for lack of a better term) are bound to slam into each other--likely near the eye of the storm, or the event horizon of the void, which would be Dracula's castle.  Thus, a castle that's slightly more erratically composed than is typical.

Or, everything that shares in Uber Drac's power (not necessarily his minions) also experiences his immense power increase--thus, a Dracula who is a physical manifestation of a perfect predator (which a void is, since it's all-consuming and nothing escapes its maw) would exist inside of a perfect representation of chaos...a more erratic castle.

Or, the street from the City of Haze was technically a part of the castle all along (in a painting inside of the castle), so it's therefore a section of the castle all its own--and so any part of it is fair game for the castle to call upon as a room within itself.  No super-castle explanation needed in this scenario.

Ultimately, though, it's cool to consider, but I don't think it's a question that definitely needs an answer.  And if it does, then one of those three is preferable IMO to making Brauner more important that he should be.

Like MST3K's theme once stated:

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts--
Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 12:45:52 AM by Morrison »

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2015, 01:51:52 AM »
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Alright, those sound better.

I realized some hours after posting, but Brauner teleporting the other characters would cause a contradiction with Stella's and Loretta's story, he would have to reason to teleport them to the bosses, so it wouldn't work out after all.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2015, 03:40:51 AM »
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So has anything been decided about Isaac? (If/when he's added that is) Will boss Isaac be from Uber Dracula's universe? (A vampire perhaps?)

Offline Malphas

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2015, 10:16:01 AM »
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I realized some hours after posting, but Brauner teleporting the other characters would cause a contradiction with Stella's and Loretta's story, he would have to reason to teleport them to the bosses, so it wouldn't work out after all.
If Serio could code a short intro with the characters finding Brauner's portrait and getting teleported to his stage that would do. Then again, it depends whether it can be done or not.

Also I have a suggestion: Could boss Richter's stage be the Whip's Memory for some stories?
Since he is not supposed to be the real one we could use the whip memory ghost as an alternative to "lol no: doppelgänger". For the sake of variation I think it would be good.

Also also, what's the deal with boss Richter? Can we use the real one every now and then?
A doppelgänger doesn't really make sense that much because he never existed in that dimension (in fact, he didn't exist anywhere else)

Please, bear with me. I've been re-reading through the thread but I'm not sure we reached a consensus about that. I may have missed it because we have A LOT of material.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2015, 01:23:38 PM »
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If Serio could code a short intro with the characters finding Brauner's portrait and getting teleported to his stage that would do. Then again, it depends whether it can be done or not.

But what stage would be used if that's possible? Because if I'm not wrong in PoR you can only teleport to that room from that room with the portraits.

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Also I have a suggestion: Could boss Richter's stage be the Whip's Memory for some stories?
Since he is not supposed to be the real one we could use the whip memory ghost as an alternative to "lol no: doppelgänger". For the sake of variation I think it would be good.

Also also, what's the deal with boss Richter? Can we use the real one every now and then?
A doppelgänger doesn't really make sense that much because he never existed in that dimension (in fact, he didn't exist anywhere else)

Please, bear with me. I've been re-reading through the thread but I'm not sure we reached a consensus about that. I may have missed it because we have A LOT of material.

Isn't boss Richter the real deal? Basicaly, he fights against the player for the same reason he claims to fight Alucard in SotN ("If Dracula returns, then the battle can last for eternity", "What need for the shepperd when the wolves are all gone"), minus the Shaft possession, guess he'd be a doppelganger only against player Richter.

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2015, 02:51:12 PM »
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stage can't be changed. it's either set or random, but if set, everyone has the same one, and if random any stage in the game could be used, including intro and dracula's.

i don't remember if brauner's portrait was a free standing one or a part of the background. might've been free since it has a few variations. the brauner intro can be done if a different stage graphics are overlaid on top of the screen like with the post-dracula cliff.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 03:00:59 PM by serio »
Dracula was here

Offline Malphas

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2015, 04:44:15 PM »
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Isn't boss Richter the real deal? Basicaly, he fights against the player for the same reason he claims to fight Alucard in SotN
Could be the Richter from this dimension, but it feels a bit odd. Trevor dies early in this timeline so the whole Belmont clan is basically a huge failure. What I mean is that Richter never defeated Drac so he didn't really have reasons for his mid life crisis like he had during SotN. Since the Belmonts never became heroes maybe he could just be bitter about being an outcast like Trevor was.

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the brauner intro can be done if a different stage graphics are overlaid on top of the screen like with the post-dracula cliff.
Sounds like a lot of work. I was just trying to get around the issue of Brauner summoning the player, but we can just say "a magical castle did it" and that would basically do it, since this castle is supposed to be more chaotic than all of the previous ones.

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So has anything been decided about Isaac? (If/when he's added that is) Will boss Isaac be from Uber Dracula's universe? (A vampire perhaps?)
That would be perfectly ok I guess. There is an important issue though: during Curse of Darkness his fancy devil forgemaster outfit (same as Hector's) had been shredded in a revealing way because after Dracula's defeat he was prosecuted and went even more insane. Should boss Isaac have his full uniform in this game?

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2015, 05:31:15 PM »
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Could be the Richter from this dimension, but it feels a bit odd. Trevor dies early in this timeline so the whole Belmont clan is basically a huge failure. What I mean is that Richter never defeated Drac so he didn't really have reasons for his mid life crisis like he had during SotN. Since the Belmonts never became heroes maybe he could just be bitter about being an outcast like Trevor was.

Trevor was killed and he never had any relationship with Sypha, that means the Belmont clan couldn't continue, so no Richter on Uber Dracula's universe.

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That would be perfectly ok I guess. There is an important issue though: during Curse of Darkness his fancy devil forgemaster outfit (same as Hector's) had been shredded in a revealing way because after Dracula's defeat he was prosecuted and went even more insane. Should boss Isaac have his full uniform in this game?

Yeah, I was actualy thinking that he'd need to have his full uniform if he's native from Uber Dracula's universe, does the CoD manga have him fully clothed? That would make it easier to make sprites (If whoever is making Isaac's sprites is willing to do that of course).

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2015, 01:48:46 AM »
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Boss Richter is Player Richter after he loses while fighting towards Dracula. We're not doing any of that multiple versions of the same dude from different universes thing anymore. It's all as familiar as can be now. :/

Sprites for Isaac/Hector have been at a standstill for a while. Don said to me that he hasn't been working on them for a while. I've not progressed much more with Trevor/Player Dracula due to work, among other things. :T
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2015, 02:25:08 AM »
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Boss Richter is Player Richter after he loses while fighting towards Dracula. We're not doing any of that multiple versions of the same dude from different universes thing anymore. It's all as familiar as can be now. :/

Does that mean Player Richter will start out with a personality like boss Richter? Then develop to someone not as proud? And the Richter he fights is just a doppelganger?

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Sprites for Isaac/Hector have been at a standstill for a while. Don said to me that he hasn't been working on them for a while. I've not progressed much more with Trevor/Player Dracula due to work, among other things. :T

I guess that's understandable, Hector/Isaac/Cod Trevor are from 3D games and making sprites of their movesets must be hell, even worse with Hector's/Isaac's IDs.

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2015, 05:09:33 AM »
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Does that mean Player Richter will start out with a personality like boss Richter? Then develop to someone not as proud? And the Richter he fights is just a doppelganger?

That would depend on whoever ends up writing for Richter. What we know of Richter within reason is that he had doubts about his legacy, and his continuing usefulness/self-worth some time after he defeated Dracula in RoB. Shaft, somehow, capitalized upon these so-called "chinks" in Richter's long thought iron-clad Belmont will, and manipulated him into becoming Lord of Castlevania in SotN (to remove him as a threat to Dracula's resurrection). Richter is a hero, but Shaft could not have turned him to evil without those seeds of doubt to exploit to begin with. :x

As for the Richter mirror (in terms of story), it could be either a doppelganger, or it could be a manifestation of his lingering doubts that he must battle (i.e. summoned by Shaft/Uber Dracula?). Or something else that fits. Again, up to whoever ends up writing his story. Bear in mind that Fou-Lu tends to like introspective encounters though, and it's something we'll all be looking for in general. :T
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Offline Malphas

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2015, 04:47:37 PM »
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Boss Richter is Player Richter after he loses while fighting towards Dracula. We're not doing any of that multiple versions of the same dude from different universes thing anymore. It's all as familiar as can be now. :/

That would be two characters attacking überdrac's dimension. Isn't that pretty much against the rules?

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #102 on: June 17, 2015, 05:05:40 PM »
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That would be two characters attacking überdrac's dimension. Isn't that pretty much against the rules?

The Player Richter vs. Boss Richter match is a situation that sets up the former to become the latter (i.e. Player Richter fights towards Dracula, encounters a manifestation of his fears/insecurities (Boss Richter), loses, is possessed by them. Now he IS Boss Richter, waiting for someone else to enter "his" castle). Where are you getting... whatever it is you posted from?
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: Boss Origins -- Discussion & Consensus
« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2015, 11:53:03 AM »
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Should a list be made of plot points that should be explained in specific encounters? Like, let's say, Dmitrii, when he's added, he won't have his ability to copy powers, he'll already start with some and hitting him won't make him copy that character's, if an explanation to that is made, it'd be better for him to explain that only to Soma and maybe Dario, it'd look weird for him to explain it to everyone, so whoever writes Soma's story should add the dialogue explaining that even if he/she planned another dialogue.