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Author Topic: arcade mode tiers  (Read 8589 times)

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Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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arcade mode tiers
« on: August 27, 2012, 05:59:30 PM »
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everyone/everything has storyline code now, but considering many of the bosses are beasts/demons, they shouldn't really be able to talk anyway. they also don't have talking portraits.

instead of the old list, i'll list the tiers, with info who's in which tier and which tiers are the storyline tiers.

list as of 0.6.09

tier 1:
  • intro stage (you can use aeon, germain and renon here)
tier 2:
  • abaddon
  • cerberus
  • lesser demon
  • dogether
  • wyvern
  • giant bat
tier 3: (story tier)
  • dario
  • dmitri (not implemented yet)
  • aguni (use this for internal monologue, or more story exposition. aguni can't talk. you can use aeon, germain and renon here)
tier 4:
  • draculina/rebirth succubus
  • skull knight
  • creature (not yet implemented)
  • werewolf
  • balore
  • flying armor
  • dullahan
  • great armor
  • legion (not yet implemented)
  • minotaur
  • akmodan
  • karasuman (not yet implemented)
  • puppet master (not yet implemented)
tier 5: (story tier)
  • succubus (not yet implemented)
  • stella+loretta (both can talk at once during this scene since i'm planning to make them "fight together")
  • astarte
  • carmilla
  • shaft
  • olrox
  • necromancer (not yet implemented)
tier 6:
  • zephyr
  • cyclops
  • paranoia
  • medusa
  • rusalka
  • blackmore
  • gergoth
  • galamoth (not yet implemented)
  • adramelech (not yet implemented)
tier 7: (story tier)
  • brauner
  • richter
  • albus
  • barlowe
tier 8: (death tier)
  • death
tier 9: (dracula tier)
  • dracula (you can use aeon, germain and renon after dracula dies and you're on a cliff)
tier 10: (evil soma tier)
  • evil soma (not yet implemented) (you can use aeon, germain and renon after soma dies and you're on a cliff, if there's no cliff/epilogue story for evil soma, it'll play dracula's version)
  • (needs his role to be decided. i'm not really planning to move him out of this tier at the moment. he's still a perfect run nightmare only few perfect victories needed to fight type character, sort of like akuma in street fighter 2 except he comes after dracula, not instead of him. also nowhere near being finished)

2015/05/02 - updated list to include 0.6's stuff.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 10:52:26 PM by serio »
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Offline Malphas

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 03:11:49 PM »
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This doesn't mean for example that if you meet Shaft you won't meet Carmilla, right?
Sorry in advance. I know you answered this before, but now I re-read the tier thing it makes me doubt a bit. :P

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 03:15:18 PM »
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story tiers have a "99 bosses" thing going for them, which means even if there are 99 bosses in that tier, you'll still face all of them. non story tiers are limited to around 4 enemies per tier or so.
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Offline Superscope

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 03:39:17 PM »
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So you will ALWAYS encounter every enemy in the story tiers, but only a few in the non-story tiers? right?
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Offline Lilfut

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 03:41:47 PM »
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I think that's the idea.

Also, may I propose Galamoth be moved to a story tier? Maybe the same one you end up putting Evil Soma in?

Offline SomaCruz1998

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 05:00:00 PM »
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Zephyr may be in story since his Control over time conflicts with St. Germain's and Aeon's.
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Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 05:49:17 PM »
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I think of their Time powers as follows:
Aeon = Global
Zephyr = Local

Thus, I do not think they conflict anywhere, as Zephyr seems more like a predator using some gimmick to catch his prey, and then leaving. He's not using Time itself. Just distorting it a bit to facilitate his hunting.

Offline VictorBorAng

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 11:25:30 PM »
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If i remember well, all bosses can support dialog now, with means that player Aeon/St.Gearmain can have a dialog with Him IF they run into him

I support the Galamoth transference to the Evil Soma Story tier (Remember that he was the Most powerful boss in SotN )

Offline Shadowmaster

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 08:25:40 AM »
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I think it's best to leave him down at tier 6, or at the very most, move him up to tier 7.

Offline Malphas

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 09:22:52 AM »
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About Galamoth being Somacula tier... I think it's a big no here since Galamoth is technically Dracula's enemy and uber-Dracula could kick his sorry butt anytime, it makes no sense to have a weaker boss as final boss. Furthermore, it is Dracula the one who is destroying time and space so if Galamoth was to be in I think he should be lower than Richter tier. Sorry, Gal, you had your chance in Kid Dracula and Judgement.
By the way, did I create a domino effect with my question or is it that nobody actually read this thread before? lol.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 12:39:10 AM »
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i'm not planning to add anyone to evil soma's tier, just like dracula's and death's tiers are their alone. it has to be him only, otherwise it'll screw up if you fight them out of order, for example suddenly fighting galamoth after the epilogue played.

evil soma now supports his own version of ending cliff and epilogue scrolling text, so if you wanted to alter the story after beating him (when his role's decided) it's possible now. if the story's absent it'll play dracula's.
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Offline Pasta

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 11:50:59 AM »
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Like a good ending-bad ending/not so good ending?
I'm not planing to write any story, but I think it would be a great add to the game. It would also help to increase the Castlevania experience.

I'm having just a small doubt. Is Somacula gonna be a nightmare only? (I kinda remember you guys saying something among the lines on the text board), because otherwise I think it would be kinda... er.. well I don't know... cheap? To have a "good ending" just by beating the game on easy, or even normal. Still, from "hard" onwards seems fair enough to me.
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Offline Superscope

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 12:19:27 PM »
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Would evil soma be based on a re-incarnation of uber drac? It would explain his teir.
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Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »
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it could be an alternate ending, incorporating the evil soma part depending from what his role's decided to be.

nightmare mode only.

and well, soma has no actual role in the story yet, this has to be decided first.
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Offline Macaulyn

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2013, 04:18:04 PM »
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There is a little problem. Slogra and Gaibon are supposed to be understood by the monsters but not by the normal characters. How would their dialogues be? They would need to speak to the monsters.

Offline rasgar

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2013, 04:40:31 PM »
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You could always have Slogra and Gaibon talk amongst themselves, and have the human characters shout things at them ("Die, monster!" or "I'll destroy this beast!") that aren't really part of the conversation.

Unless you want to do the Tekken thing and have characters hold perfectly normal conversations despite speaking completely different languages.

Offline Shadowmaster

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »
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I'd imagine some of Dracula's servants would be able to understand them - certainly Death and Dracula would. But yeah, I think what Rasgar said sounds plausible.

Offline Macaulyn

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2013, 02:08:24 AM »
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But it wouldn't sound like a story. If they could speak to the other monsters, there would be actual dialogues between playable-char and boss, and it would be unique.

Offline rasgar

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2013, 03:15:25 AM »
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Hold on, I think I misunderstood your first post. I thought you were asking what Slogra's dialogue should be like with characters like Richter and Barlowe. Were you asking what his dialogue should be like with the monsters?

In order to answer that question, you should decide what Slogra's goal should be, and that ought to shape his dialogue with the bosses. I guess his only problem would be that he wouldn't be able to have meaningful conversations with most of the story tier bosses. There are still some chances you have for guaranteed fights to advance the plot of his story, there will just be less so you have to make them count.

I would imagine Dario and Dmitrii might be able to understand him, considering that they have the souls of demons inside of them. Depending on what's possible with the coding, Aguni could come down before the story sequence and talk with Slogra. The bosses in tier 5 could go either way I guess, but I'd say he probably couldn't talk with anyone in tier 7. Naturally he could talk to Death and Dracula because otherwise you couldn't have a complete story.

Offline Macaulyn

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2013, 03:30:01 AM »
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Well, the story I started about them is: They are constantly mocked by the other bosses because of their weakness (at least compared to the rest, I see them as the idiot villains). In order to show their strenght to their "colleagues", they start fighting and defeating each of them. In some part of the story (probably when fighting either Richter, Albus or the Lecarde Sisters) they would realize that their power is too great for be wasted in Dracula's service and they fight against Death and then Dracula. But since the talking bosses can't understant Slogra and Gaibon, how would someone know what they're up to?

Offline rasgar

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2013, 03:41:08 AM »
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It may be early in the story, but the internal monologue moment everyone else has with Aguni can still be an important part of the story. You will simply write the dialogue the same way with bosses like Richter. Only instead of a monologue it will be a conversation between Slogra and Gaibon.

Now it depends on what you mean by "someone" in your last sentence. If you mean the audience, they will know by listening to Slogra. If you mean the bad guys, you could easily have it so that either Dracula or Death (or both) has been observing their progress the whole way up to the castle keep, and will already know about their plans.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2013, 04:05:05 AM »
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so, now that mugen 1.1 beta is out there's apparently 30 arcade tiers avaliable instead of 10. i'll be adjusting stuff to that once i make a full 1.1 switch. so, i'll need as many people as possible to test 1.1 version on their pcs to check compatibility since i intend to drop 1.0 and winmugen support eventually.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 04:34:25 AM by serio »
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Offline VladCT

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2013, 04:31:13 AM »
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Any other differences between that and the alpha leak?

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2013, 05:22:44 AM »
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not that many. one extra bug i have to add a workaround for, and a few small fixes that aren't really noticable for players, just developers.

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Offline VladCT

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2013, 12:03:17 PM »
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An extra bug? I hope it's nothing too bad.
Anyway, I'm going to go and make a separate thread for 1.1 compatibility reports, is that okay with you?

Offline UBerserker

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2013, 01:20:05 PM »
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Man tried 1.1 today and I loved playing this at 60 FPS.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2013, 01:48:16 PM »
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i guess so with the thread.

the bug is pretty small (transparency values will default to pure black if not specifically declared. actual default values stopped working), and workaround is really just adding the missing values so it doesn't rely on defaults. mugen did set that up by default normally, but because another bugfix broke it, it doesn't until the next beta.
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Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2013, 06:32:11 PM »
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30 arcade tiers mean we can have many, many, more bosses, I'm guessing...?

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2013, 07:22:11 PM »
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more like better arcade/story mode runs. i already have nearly infinite boss slots.

until 1.0 i only had 10 order slots for arcade runs, with 1.1 i have 30 of those, which means i can split storyline bosses into more smaller groups instead of having to crowd them all in 3 of them.
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Offline rexxx11

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 10:35:14 PM »
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the character i am currently trying to add, semiel, would be galamoths son, since he is a half dragon. galamoth exists in a different dimension, also warping universes, and shows up after the death of dracula, like in portrait. then soma, then chaos soma/menace.

easy= dracula
medium=gal
hard=soma
nightmare=improved soma/menace boss fight
maybe a completely original boss?

slogra/gaibon should be directly before death, considering thier relationship.

semiel>
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2015, 07:00:57 PM »
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This list needs some updates, Zephyr, Giant Bat and Final Guard were added, and Skull Night is in tier 3 now.

Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2015, 07:09:48 PM »
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So I played Arcade mode with Frog and I noticed that Medusa, Blackmore and Zephyr have story mode codes, which is odd because they're in tier 6 which isn't a story tier, are they in there to not overcrowd tier 5?

I also noticed that Remilia also has a story code, was that done in advance in case MUGEN allows character specific bosses someday?

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2015, 07:33:56 PM »
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every single boss is coded with the story code. frog probably enabled them by accident.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2015, 07:59:21 PM »
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every single boss is coded with the story code. frog probably enabled them by accident.

But the weird thing is that unlike Medusa and Blackmore, Zephyr has a portrait (Medusa uses her own sprites, Blackmore doesn't talk so we can't see what he'd use), and Remilia has an intro nearly identical to Dracula's on her own stage which she only uses with story mode activated.

Offline s̻͔̦͔e̫̣̹͕r̤̗̤̥͔i͎̪̳̺̜o̰̜͓̫̺͖

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2015, 09:25:32 PM »
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everyone who had a portrait drawn by jorge uses it. everyone else uses a sprite.

i did code an intro for remilia, yeah. just in case i guess, lol.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2015, 07:14:13 PM »
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So, I have some questions about Succubus:

Which voice actress will be used for her? The one from PSP SotN? Or maybe Loi succubus? (But I guess that one is being used for that succubus with a whip) 'Cause I sure hope it won't be the english one from the original version, that one was just terrible...

And, will she be strong? I noticed this "trend" with making SotN bosses become really strong in this game (Shaft is the exception, though he got nerfed, he used to be overpowered in his second form, specialy if you were using slower characters), and I'm wondering if she'd also be one of those bosses.

I'll honestly be kind of scared to face Galamoth if he also gets overbuffed like the other SotN bosses did lol.

Offline Zufeng

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2015, 10:15:52 AM »
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I'll honestly be kind of scared to face Galamoth if he also gets overbuffed like the other SotN bosses did lol.
Goddamn right,just imagine his lightning storm from his baton,In SOTN we can use beryl circlet,but not on here,which deal major and multi damage like 2nd dracula fire laser
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2015, 12:18:02 PM »
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Goddamn right,just imagine his lightning storm from his baton,In SOTN we can use beryl circlet,but not on here,which deal major and multi damage like 2nd dracula fire laser

I never used Beryl Circlet against Galamoth, on the times I didn't use the braindead with Shield Rod + Alucard Shield, I avoided that attack with a super jump or mist form, though, if I'm not wrong, his staff did contact damage, and that'd need to be removed for the characters without invincible dash in moves to be able to avoid it when cornered, unless he can be "manipulated" like Gergoth, in a way which can make him never be able to corner you if you position yourself properly.

Now that I think of it, Galamoth would probably need some sort of "block" for him to not be fought in stages like Ruined Entrance Hall on survival mode, because he'd go through the ceiling lol.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2015, 01:20:48 PM »
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succubus (punching bag level finished, she can't do nearly anything) is really old, so she uses ps1 sotn voices. i have the psp ones ready for when i get to recode her to bring her up to standard.

i dunno how much harder will she get. i'll get to that when i'm finishing her up.

galamoth will be weaker in at least one part. his hp will be lower, because this game has a limit of 9999 hp, while his was like 13000 or so. lol.
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2015, 02:02:19 PM »
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succubus (punching bag level finished, she can't do nearly anything) is really old, so she uses ps1 sotn voices. i have the psp ones ready for when i get to recode her to bring her up to standard.

i dunno how much harder will she get. i'll get to that when i'm finishing her up.

galamoth will be weaker in at least one part. his hp will be lower, because this game has a limit of 9999 hp, while his was like 13000 or so. lol.

He had less than 12,100, I remember I defeated him with Richter by constantly whipping at his face, I counted since it was going to be boring lol.

Speaking of hitting him in the face, will the rest of his body have a higher deffense than his face? If so, I think it'd be important to make tracking moves to go after his face.

I feel like flight characters will have a pretty big advantage against him, specialy the ones who can dash during flight, he might need some good anti-flight tools for flight characters not have too much advantage.

Offline Zufeng

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2015, 03:29:39 PM »
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I feel like flight characters will have a pretty big advantage against him, specialy the ones who can dash during flight, he might need some good anti-flight tools for flight characters not have too much advantage.
Galamoth already have one,the electric wave
If i not wrong when i played my psp,sometimes he put his baton to the blade fist and then releasing a large crescent shape shockwave,the only way to dodge this is by crouching

Also,he can use the large map like the abyss,room of darkness,or add a new arena: floating catacomb
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Offline Lukmendes

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2015, 03:52:53 PM »
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Galamoth already have one,the electric wave
If i not wrong when i played my psp,sometimes he put his baton to the blade fist and then releasing a large crescent shape shockwave,the only way to dodge this is by crouching

Yes, but flight characters would have a faster way to damage him, and unlike SotN, the flight transitions are really fast, so it wouldn't be a problem to wait for him to do an attack, flight, attack him, then leave the air.

And again, characters who have flight dashes would easily avoid that attack, unless it's active frames are increased to be long enough for a flight dash not work, which would force those characters to stop flying to avoid it.

Quote
Also,he can use the large map like the abyss,room of darkness,or add a new arena: floating catacomb

The Abyss is Menace's stage, Room of Darkness is Dullahan's stage, and is too small for Galamoth (He'd go through the "ceiling"), it's better to give him Floating Catacomb.

Now I'm wondering, how tall is Menace Serio? I tested with Carrie here and her double jump + super jump can reach around 000337 height, in case it's not enough to hit his face and let the character be in a safe position, it'd be better to put those platforms on The Abyss, unless he can be killed by being hit only in the knee, which would give flight characters a really different way to fight him.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 04:06:45 PM by Lukmendes »

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2015, 07:22:48 AM »
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Yes, but flight characters would have a faster way to damage him, and unlike SotN, the flight transitions are really fast, so it wouldn't be a problem to wait for him to do an attack, flight, attack him, then leave the air.
Try to cut charging anim maybe,so its can released in instant,or you can use dracula anti air move to galamoth?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2015, 01:57:39 PM »
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Try to cut charging anim maybe,so its can released in instant,or you can use dracula anti air move to galamoth?

Yeah, cutting part of it's charge time would help, but it just shouldn't be too much, after all, if the character is supposed to have an advantage against a boss because of an specific tool, let him have it, the advantage just can't be too big at point of making the matchup laughably easy, specialy against the harder bosses.

The way I'm seeing, characters with divekick will have a pretty good advantage against Galamoth and Menace, since they can jump, attack then use the divekick to quickly go back to the ground safely.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2015, 02:57:51 AM »
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Yeah, cutting part of it's charge time would help, but it just shouldn't be too much, after all, if the character is supposed to have an advantage against a boss because of an specific tool, let him have it, the advantage just can't be too big at point of making the matchup laughably easy, specialy against the harder bosses.

The way I'm seeing, characters with divekick will have a pretty good advantage against Galamoth and Menace, since they can jump, attack then use the divekick to quickly go back to the ground safely.
Well,maybe give galamoth a really high defense (not high as axe armor)  to balance it?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2015, 03:18:17 AM »
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Well,maybe give galamoth a really high defense (not high as axe armor)  to balance it?

That would only make it worse for everyone, not just flight characters, and it wouldn't solve the "problem" of flight characters having a big advantage.

Though, Galamoth had high deffense on his body in SotN, but I think it'd be better if his body didn't have such a high deffense here (Richter's whip did only 8 damage on the body and 64 on the face), that way flight characters could still have an advantage, but it wouldn't be gigantic at point of needing to give Galamoth anti airs which are too good, though since Galamoth can't have 12,000 HP in CVF, his deffenses could be a bit higher (Not too much, since he can have 9,999 HP).

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2015, 06:06:44 PM »
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he still probably won't start out with full lifebar anyway, needs some space to gain more during survival. lol.

i don't think i'll make variable hitbox areas either, since it's not really possible with the way the engine's set up now. i'd need to make double hitbox objects, twice as many hitbox animations and then somehow synchronize them.
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2015, 06:29:50 PM »
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i don't think i'll make variable hitbox areas either, since it's not really possible with the way the engine's set up now. i'd need to make double hitbox objects, twice as many hitbox animations and then somehow synchronize them.

Would it be possible to make his body be a hitbox like Great Armor's or Medusa's shield? But instead of taking no damage, he could take reduced damage (Assuming it's possible to change shields to work like that) like when Jonathan or Werewolf block an attack.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2015, 01:03:48 PM »
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That would only make it worse for everyone, not just flight characters, and it wouldn't solve the "problem" of flight characters having a big advantage.

Though, Galamoth had high deffense on his body in SotN, but I think it'd be better if his body didn't have such a high deffense here (Richter's whip did only 8 damage on the body and 64 on the face), that way flight characters could still have an advantage, but it wouldn't be gigantic at point of needing to give Galamoth anti airs which are too good, though since Galamoth can't have 12,000 HP in CVF, his deffenses could be a bit higher (Not too much, since he can have 9,999 HP).
Or maybe try to have galamoth use attack that hit flying character more often (When i fight him in psp,he is more likely to use black orb and baton smack)
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2015, 07:03:26 PM »
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Or maybe try to have galamoth use attack that hit flying character more often (When i fight him in psp,he is more likely to use black orb and baton smack)

His staff attack has barely enough range to be a threat, and flight characters move fast so they won't have that much trouble to avoid it, black orbs attack probably can be dashed through, unless they go after the player.

Anyway, if Galamoth doesn't have higher deffence on his body, then flight characters won't really have that much of an advantage, only against his electric attack where the non flight characters will have to jump in a platform to protect themselves, while flight characters will be able to get close to him and keep attacking.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2015, 03:30:35 PM »
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His staff attack has barely enough range to be a threat, and flight characters move fast so they won't have that much trouble to avoid it, black orbs attack probably can be dashed through, unless they go after the player.

Anyway, if Galamoth doesn't have higher deffence on his body, then flight characters won't really have that much of an advantage, only against his electric attack where the non flight characters will have to jump in a platform to protect themselves, while flight characters will be able to get close to him and keep attacking.
I've been thinking another anti air attack,then Aguena item crash is come in my mind.
Im really hoping galamoth is not going to be easy boss for flight character
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2015, 03:59:04 PM »
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I've been thinking another anti air attack,then Aguena item crash is come in my mind.
Im really hoping galamoth is not going to be easy boss for flight character

As I said, if Galamoth doesn't have higher deffense on his body, then flight characters won't have that much advantage, possibly only during one of his attacks they'd be able to be more aggressive against him.

Thinking about it, Galamoth will need to have a pretty strong control of the pace of the fight to be a threat, zoning and movement are really strong in CVF, might be complicated to make him be strong, he'd probably need to put pressure in a way similar to Cerberus or Medusa, which is having strong offensive options while not having that much recovery to limit the player's options, I guess his black orbs could help with that.

Oh well, it might take some more years until Galamoth is added, I wonder which bosses will be added on the next beta.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2015, 02:31:41 PM »
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Oh well, it might take some more years until Galamoth is added, I wonder which bosses will be added on the next beta.
Galamoth will take a long time before added,to match the flight and ground user
Maybe the upcoming boss is menace?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2015, 02:56:55 PM »
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Galamoth will take a long time before added,to match the flight and ground user
Maybe the upcoming boss is menace?

Menace would have a hilariously terrible matchup against flight characters, probably as bad as boss Death gets destroyed by Axe Armor, because the flight characters won't need to do jumps in specific moments to hit the faces on his mouth and neck, they'll just fly and hit him, then go back down when they feel like it, Menace will need some pretty powerful anti-flight tools before being added, or maybe he could stop attack and enter a "final guard"-like state when he sees a character flying when he's in an iddle pose.

And for both Menace, and Galamoth, it could take a few years before they're added, don't think adding bosses like those in MUGEN is an easy task.

Also, Serio, I had an idea, how about giving boss Death the "summon spirits"? He lacks when it comes to good magical attacks, the two magical attacks he has are easily avoidable (And he loses one of them when he transforms, and he keeps the worst one), that gives a very good advantage for characters who have high physical attacks resistance, the most extreme example is Axe Armor, who can destroy Death like a tier 2 boss, but there are others as well like Simons. The attack could work either like player Death's or maybe like Loi's (Maybe the explosion could disable I-frames from backdashes, or last long enough to make it harder to avoid it with a backdash), not advisable to make it work like Orlok's version, it'd give a random boss an even more random move.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2015, 03:07:49 PM »
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Also, Serio, I had an idea, how about giving boss Death the "summon spirits"? He lacks when it comes to good magical attacks, the two magical attacks he has are easily avoidable (And he loses one of them when he transforms, and he keeps the worst one), that gives a very good advantage for characters who have high physical attacks resistance, the most extreme example is Axe Armor, who can destroy Death like a tier 2 boss, but there are others as well like Simons. The attack could work either like player Death's or maybe like Loi's (Maybe the explosion could disable I-frames from backdashes, or last long enough to make it harder to avoid it with a backdash), not advisable to make it work like Orlok's version, it'd give a random boss an even more random move.
The one from Ooe,or alucard tetra spirits?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2015, 03:10:45 PM »
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The one from Ooe,or alucard tetra spirits?

The one player Death and Orlok have, though it could work like Death's Loi flying skulls/summon spirits.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2015, 04:10:43 PM »
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The one player Death and Orlok have, though it could work like Death's Loi flying skulls/summon spirits.
The green orb one i suppose
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2015, 04:30:15 PM »
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The green orb one i suppose

No, I'm talking about the flying skulls, which is called "summon spirits".

http://serio.piiym.net/cvbla/18.html

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2015, 09:39:00 AM »
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No, I'm talking about the flying skulls, which is called "summon spirits".

http://serio.piiym.net/cvbla/18.html
I think its a good idea,maybe a the chain grab attack from portrait of ruin can be added?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2015, 09:51:39 AM »
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Quote
I think its a good idea,maybe a the chain grab attack from portrait of ruin can be added?

Boss Death already has that starting hard and nightmare mode difficulty. Maybe make Death also have it in Normal mode?


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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2015, 03:21:07 PM »
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Boss Death already has that starting hard and nightmare mode difficulty. Maybe make Death also have it in Normal mode?
I dont know that,i never played hard and nightmare mode
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2015, 06:31:03 AM »
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hey zufeng the power of the Death in portrait of ruin maybe make a sugestion for item crash of Death...  is good why not? xD =)
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2015, 11:19:14 AM »
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hey zufeng the power of the Death in portrait of ruin maybe make a sugestion for item crash of Death...  is good why not? xD =)
Which one?,the mini demonic meggido on final battle in PoR?
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2015, 11:41:19 AM »
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He probably meant the chain hands thing, which isn't exactly a good idea due to the fact that bosses can't be grabbed.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2015, 01:34:19 PM »
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He probably meant the chain hands thing, which isn't exactly a good idea due to the fact that bosses can't be grabbed.
Its impossible for boss to be grabbed,i think death need a new item crash,the mini meggido will work
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2015, 01:37:34 PM »
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Player Death's item crash is fine, he doesn't really need another, only issue it could be solved is to have more consistent hits on VS (Sometimes it combos into itself, sometimes it doesn't).

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2015, 02:52:41 PM »
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Player Death's item crash is fine, he doesn't really need another, only issue it could be solved is to have more consistent hits on VS (Sometimes it combos into itself, sometimes it doesn't).
Or maybe the scythe speed on item crash is increased (less chance of missing maybe?)
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2015, 03:25:27 PM »
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Or maybe the scythe speed on item crash is increased (less chance of missing maybe?)

The problem isn't the speed, it's the way it juggles an airbone opponent, it may make the opponent fall, generaly happens with the first mini-scythe, all it needs to be done is push around an airbone opponent less and make them float a bit more, and that might solve it.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2015, 09:22:18 PM »
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oh sorry, right, can't catch the bosses xD ...
or maybe you can do something like,
with the scythe and turning at the center and ends with a red explosion inside the box, if it is within box much damage more and if you're out just a little damage. jajaja i don't know just i liked the box with the hands xD lol
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2015, 01:38:19 PM »
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The problem isn't the speed, it's the way it juggles an airbone opponent, it may make the opponent fall, generaly happens with the first mini-scythe, all it needs to be done is push around an airbone opponent less and make them float a bit more, and that might solve it.
Maybe yes,because sometimes in survival mode,its really hard to hit fast moving character

Post Merge: November 24, 2015, 01:39:07 PM
oh sorry, right, can't catch the bosses xD ...
or maybe you can do something like,
with the scythe and turning at the center and ends with a red explosion inside the box, if it is within box much damage more and if you're out just a little damage. jajaja i don't know just i liked the box with the hands xD lol
If the size nearly cover entire screen,its will too hard to dodge
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2015, 01:56:25 PM »
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Maybe yes,because sometimes in survival mode,its really hard to hit fast moving character

The suggestion I made won't make any difference outside of VS.

Besides, every item crash has some sort of problem, Death's item crash works well enough, can be used for tracking or anti air.

Quote

Post Merge: November 24, 2015, 01:39:07 PM
If the size nearly cover entire screen,its will too hard to dodge

Well, on VS we have Hydro Storm, Sonia's Magic Soul, Simon's Rosary, Jokenathan's/Charlotte's Dual Crash, Marias azure drafon item crash and Maxim's Item crash, don't think giving this to player Death would be a big deal lol.

Anyway, if player Death were to receive another item crash, he should have something else, this one, without the grab, it would be a physical attack which hits sometimes and tries to track the opponent, it would work very similarly to the item crash he has now, only with less hits, if another item crash were to be given to him, it should be doing magic damage instead.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2015, 02:06:41 PM »
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Well, on VS we have Hydro Storm, Sonia's Magic Soul, Simon's Rosary, Jokenathan's/Charlotte's Dual Crash, Marias azure drafon item crash and Maxim's Item crash, don't think giving this to player Death would be a big deal lol.

Anyway, if player Death were to receive another item crash, he should have something else, this one, without the grab, it would be a physical attack which hits sometimes and tries to track the opponent, it would work very similarly to the item crash he has now, only with less hits, if another item crash were to be given to him, it should be doing magic damage instead.
Sorry,i mistaking this for boss death
Anyway what kind of item crash,using his chain arm to punch seems silly idea.
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2015, 02:26:46 PM »
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Anyway what kind of item crash,using his chain arm to punch seems silly idea.

I already said his chain arms isn't such a good idea.

Anyway, maybe it could be something similar to an attack he has in Rebirth:

(click to show/hide)

I'm talking about the attack at 1:07. The way it could be adapted here is to do a single hit, magic damage, full screen horizontal range. It could have a fast recovery as well, which would make it better against faster bosses, that's all I can think of though, it should do less damage than his mini scythes item crash though.

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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2015, 02:41:17 PM »
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I already said his chain arms isn't such a good idea.

Anyway, maybe it could be something similar to an attack he has in Rebirth:

(click to show/hide)

I'm talking about the attack at 1:07. The way it could be adapted here is to do a single hit, magic damage, full screen horizontal range. It could have a fast recovery as well, which would make it better against faster bosses, that's all I can think of though, it should do less damage than his mini scythes item crash though.
Thats is a good idea,maybe its can hit great armor before he block it with shield,just like simon's rosary,instant hit(?)
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2015, 01:45:43 AM »
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hey its a good idea too... is better xD . but i think Death need a new item crash =D please xD
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Re: arcade mode tiers
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2015, 02:25:05 AM »
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hey its a good idea too... is better xD . but i think Death need a new item crash =D please xD

Well, giving characters new moves is cool and all, but it's better to think about whether or not that new move would be good, after all, quantity doesn't mean quality, there was a time where the only useful item crash the generic whip users had was hydro storm, all the rest were useless compared to it because of worst damage and they didn't cover the whole screen, nowadays their other item crashes are usable, but some are still useless like axe item crash, and bible item crash doesn't offer anything both in utility and damage.