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Author Topic: Story - Firebrand  (Read 4248 times)

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Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 01:25:57 AM »
+1
The reason I gave Firebrand a high standing in the demonic hierarchy is because I figured after taking out Phalanx the usurper, he'd be at least at the level of a lord of Hell. It wouldn't be a huge deal to rewrite that, though.

And could I write it as Makai being like a neighboring "nation" to Hell? I like the idea of Firebrand having some sort of familiarity with Dracula.

Also I will add the demonic noises, mainly because I think it'll be fun to write the other demons' variant cries.

Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2013, 02:38:21 AM »
+1
The reason I gave Firebrand a high standing in the demonic hierarchy is because I figured after taking out Phalanx the usurper, he'd be at least at the level of a lord of Hell. It wouldn't be a huge deal to rewrite that, though.

And could I write it as Makai being like a neighboring "nation" to Hell? I like the idea of Firebrand having some sort of familiarity with Dracula.

Also I will add the demonic noises, mainly because I think it'll be fun to write the other demons' variant cries.

Firebrand's achievement of defeating Phalanx (And the Dark Demon) were only so he could achieve his own greedy wishes. Let's not forget that Firebrand is inherently evil, and, although he fought to protect the Demon Village, in Demon's Crest, we could see that he wanted to rule the world with the Crest's power, but ultimatelly gave up on them. He may be known as "hero" or "legendary", but he's not THAT important for demonic hierarchy. He's just another Red Arremer (A bold one, but that's about it).

About the Makai. Well, I still think that when Dracula is killed, he's sent to Hell itself, the "sinner punishment afterlife" and not the Devil Dimension Makai (Although, "Makai" in japanese means "Hell", there is evidence in the games that this is not THE Hell). Thus, I conclude that neither has any correlation. All I can say on "Hell being a neighboring nation" is that I highly believe it'd not pass. Now, for Firebrand having any familiarity with Dracula, well, considering the fact that Dracula seems more like a demon overlord than a classic vampire, I think it IS possible, but you'll have to be very creative on this to work. If it is of any help, Astaroth is a variant of Astarte (Phoenician goddess, and PoR boss' name). Astaroth, apparently, is the male version of Astarte. In Gargoyle's Quest, he is the Devil Village's king. Thus, one could, maybe, make a correlation here... Astarte fights for Dracula... She has a nominal relation to Astaroth... Maybe you could imply that Astaroth heard of Dracula exploits through Astarte... Just my own musing here.

EDIT: I think I didn't expressed me correctly yet, and thus, I feel like I've throw some bullshit I'm still not sure it's there. I'll be correcting this if I identify something wrong here. Until then, the point stands.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:51:42 AM by ThePlotTwist »

Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 02:49:44 AM »
0
Hmmm... I'll rewrite both Aeon conversations Monday (I won't have access to a computer until then, and I sure as hell ain't typing all that out on my iPhone), but is it still okay to have him be a bit buddy-buddy with the "higher" demons?

Also, as for the Makai/Hell thing... There was that one skeleton in the Demon Village that seems to imply humans were there at some point.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 03:01:05 PM by Lilfut »

Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2013, 03:19:21 AM »
0
Hmmm... I'll rewrite both Aeon conversations Monday (I won't have access to a computer until then, and I sure as hell ain't typing all this out on my iPhone), but is it still okay to have him be a bit buddy-buddy with the "higher" demons.

I see no problem, seeing as Firebrand has quite the informal chats with Astaroth now and then.

Also, as for the Makai/Hell thing... There was that one skeleton in the Demon Village that seems to imply humans were there at some point.

Well... Arthur, the lance throwing war machine of Ghosts 'n' Goblins, was there at some point. I think they kidnap and eat humans. They seem to do it quite frequently, in fact.

Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 03:43:44 PM »
0
Satan appears as a sub boss in GnG, right? Maybe Firebrand heard of Dracula from him.

Offline Malphas

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2013, 01:54:24 AM »
0
WARNING: Personal opinion about Satan.
Satan appears in GnG as a menacing bearded monster, but is actually renamed Astaroth in the wiki. I doubt Astaroth and Satan are really the same person.

Now, in Canonvanias we never get to see Satan personally, we only see some powerful items related to him which leave a great mystery on how did they end up in Dracula's castle. Be it pacts with the devil, his demonic powers or Satan's spirit wandering the castle, we never actually know if Dracula has ever met him personally, which is especially wonderful because pure and true evil/terror has no face (and no, a naked guy with shadows cloaking his privates is not scary, but awkward)

When kids hear about Satan and imagine a red horned guy with a trident and heavy metal music in the background they don't feel intimidated at all, when they imagine Satan as an entity which could be behind them right now or lurking under their beds they freak out. I prefer to leave it like this.

But I digress (a lot actually) GnG idea of Astaroth may not be Castlevania's idea of Satan and therefore unrelated.

Firebrand could meet alternate versions of his world's demons in the Castlevania dimension just like Abaddon and the gender-bender version of Astaroth. Maybe he could ask himself wether Dracula is the Demon King's incarnation and if pure evil and absolute destruction are worth pursuing.

By the way, here's a funny thing about Hell being multidimensional.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 02:18:25 AM by Malphas »

Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2013, 02:36:52 AM »
0
Don't make me add something like that to Firebrand's ending, Malphas...

Offline ThePlotTwist

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2013, 03:19:25 AM »
0
WARNING: Personal opinion about Satan.
Satan appears in GnG as a menacing bearded monster, but is actually renamed Astaroth in the wiki. I doubt Astaroth and Satan are really the same person.

Now, in Canonvanias we never get to see Satan personally, we only see some powerful items related to him which leave a great mystery on how did they end up in Dracula's castle. Be it pacts with the devil, his demonic powers or Satan's spirit wandering the castle, we never actually know if Dracula has ever met him personally, which is especially wonderful because pure and true evil/terror has no face (and no, a naked guy with shadows cloaking his privates is not scary, but awkward)

When kids hear about Satan and imagine a red horned guy with a trident and heavy metal music in the background they don't feel intimidated at all, when they imagine Satan as an entity which could be behind them right now or lurking under their beds they freak out. I prefer to leave it like this.

But I digress (a lot actually) GnG idea of Astaroth may not be Castlevania's idea of Satan and therefore unrelated.

Firebrand could meet alternate versions of his world's demons in the Castlevania dimension just like Abaddon and the gender-bender version of Astaroth. Maybe he could ask himself wether Dracula is the Demon King's incarnation and if pure evil and absolute destruction are worth pursuing.

By the way, here's a funny thing about Hell being multidimensional.
(click to show/hide)

Firstly, we have two games who carry the GnG acronym: Ghosts 'n Goblins and Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

Well. Satan, on these games, is in fact, that red creature that steals the princess and flies away. That was not a Red Arremer. It was Satan. Now, there's also Lucifer. On these games, Astaroth, Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub and Samael are each an individual entity. Satan is one underling to Astaroth, and Lucifer is the great demon that took Astaroth's throne after he lost to Arthur on the first game (After having his arse kicked by Arthur, Samael took his place, and after him, Hades).

Now, just to clarify:
Ghosts 'n Goblins is the first game. The villain is Astaroth.
Ghouls 'n Ghosts is the second. Astaroth is now the servant to the new devil king, Lucifer.
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts is the third. Astaroth appears again, but now working for Samael.
Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins is the last. Astaroth is servant to Hades.

CTRL+F "Satan" to find descriptions of him on the series as a whole on Tv Tropes.
Here is his description on GnG Wiki.

Satan is always servant to Astaroth or some other higher up, and thus, not the big shot himself. Lucifer is, and only in the second game.

Well, that's it. When writing (If writing) about this, take in consideration that each demon is different. The Red Arremers are the offspring of Satan (That includes Firebrand). If you can make a connection with that, you're golden. But I'm still hitting the same key: It's going to be complicated, since mixing the demonology of each game may seen like a good idea, but each has it's own very intrincated mythology, and thus, they might not connect very well.

EDIT: Also, picturing the Draculas chit chat on hell made me lol so hard I almost asphixiated myself xD

Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2013, 01:08:41 PM »
0
Maybe Satan is ruler of Hell, and Astaroth is ruler of Makai, and who's subservient to who depends on the realm? Like when Satan's in Makai, he takes orders from Astaroth, but when Astaroth's in Hell, he takes orders from Satan.

Also keep in mind that I'm making things even more complicated by adding real-world demonology to the mix. It's mostly just referring to the Goetia for demonic characterization, but still.

EDIT: Tomorrow I'll start a topic about demonology as it relates to the story. I've got a few ideas that I assumed were verboten, but here we are.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 12:57:55 AM by Lilfut »

Offline (yber])ragon10]{

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2013, 06:59:17 AM »
-1
As it stands, Aeon and Death (as we know them from CV) simply do not exist in these other worlds. Why would a particular location, when what is essentially a god cannot? In short, the worlds share nothing in common.

Perhaps I should wait for a mod to weigh in on this, because nothing like this has been suggested before.

This cropped up early on when we were figuring out how to incorporate the cellphone games, and the four of us agreed upon segregation of foreign universes; things not in Castlevania are completely unlinked and unrelated to Castlevania. So, Sisyphus =/= CV Death, Hell =/= Makai (or whatever it is), Aeon and Death have no knowledge of or (very little) influence upon foreign objects/characters/locales, and so on and so forth. :T

Also, why is so much effort being put towards a story pitch for a character that won't even be in the game? You might as well regale me with a draft for Samus Aran since lolmertoidvania if apparently Firebrand has loldemon going for him and nothing else. Threads like this are why I can't wait for Morrison to finish his master story guidelines/rules/commandments, so that there won't be anymore epileptic trees sprouting up like weeds. :P
"So you know cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come and talk to you it's great. But if you try to talk to them it doesn't always go so well."
~ Shigeru Miyamoto

Offline Lilfut

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Re: Story - Firebrand
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2013, 12:05:39 PM »
+2
I just like writing stories for fun. :/

 

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